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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It seems to me that every time a mass shooting in America occurs, especially when it is done by a white male, there is a rush to conflate issues. People rush to blame the problem on mental health and that that is the issue we must tackle if we are going to stop these white nationalists from committing such heinous acts. Not only is this racist and islamaphobic, it is also flat out incorrect.

. This article reaffirms the view that apart from certain pathological cases, there is no causal connection between an individual's mental disorder and engagement in terrorist activity. However, there may be a connection betweean individual engaging in terrorist activity and developing a mental disorder.Certain stressors that occur because of terrorist activity may result in psychological disturbance in terrorist individuals. These factors may partially explain terrorist group instability and should be taken into account when detaining and interrogating terrorist suspects.
https://content.grantham.edu/at/CJ450/w2/w2_04.pdf

What we're seeing here is that engaging in terrorist activities may actually lead to the development of mental disorders, not the other way around.

A very preliminary survey by the authors found that out of 55 attacks in the West where the 76 individuals involved were possibly influenced by the Islamic State, according to media reports, 27.6% had a history of apparent psychological instability, a percentage comparable to that found in the general population. This figure is driven largely by individuals inspired by the Islamic State, as opposed to those directed by it, however. The percentage is likely overinflated for several noteworthy reasons, including poor reporting, low benchmarks, and the tendency to overuse mental health problems as a 'silver-bullet' explanation for terrorist involvement. The relationship is, in fact, far more complex than typically presented.
https://ctc.usma.edu/is-there-a-nexus-between-terrorist-involvement-and-mental-health-in-the-age-of-the-islamic-state/

This article is actually very informative in terms of talking about lone actors vs group terrorism, why numbers may be inflated in regards to mental illness and terrorism etc.,

But my point overall is that when we jump to mental illness, it means we are never going to or perhaps dont even want to fix the issue. And it could be because a lot of people have a completely terrible definition of terrorism. While there is no concrete definition of terrorism even among academics, whats clear is that there has to be some sort of political motive.Usually the actor or actors is attempting to enact some sort of change in the political, social, or economic realm. This is why we can label the El Paso shooter a domestic terrorist, but not the dayton shooter, as far as we know, just like we cannot label James Holms a terrorist (he said as much himself)

And I think people are quick to jump to the mental health debate because it means we don't have to have that larger conversation about how the system we live in perpetuates this kind of violence. After all, every country has mental illness, but only in the U.S. do people shoot up movie theaters because of it. We need to have an actual conversation on how our culture, economic system, and other things take individuals with and without mental illness and radicalize them to the point they commit murder. And in some cases it's not even radicalizing them. In some areas of this country the ability to kill another human being may be an actual prerequisite to your own survival, or at least thats the condition the system has created.

If you want to go ahead and advocate for greater mental health care in this country, go ahead, you should be doing that. but you can do it without conflating issues and avoiding the actual conversation that needs to be had.
 

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the united states and the west’s obsession and culture centered around individualism is a huge part of it imo

when these things happen without any clear political motivation, i liken it to the phenomenon in places like Japan (forget what it’s actually called atm) where the culture and way society works makes a lot of these people work horses and then hermits in their personal lives. there’s far far less of a focus on individualism and identity there, so when people get to that breaking point, they just end up throwing themselves off the roof of their company.

the polar opposite imo are these things like the dayton shooting (and other weird incel-y, fringe weirdo situations) where we can see aspects of our society and culture pushing these people to the opposite end of the spectrum where they aim to take as many other ppl out as possible and stem from passion type shit.

dunno if i’d totally eliminate mental health as something we should focus on to correct this, but yeah, sort of an easy cop-out (which we are all looking for, tbh.) ideally we should try to achieve a happy medium and balance between both horrible endings, but idk how that’d work either
 

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And I think people are quick to jump to the mental health debate because it means we don't have to have that larger conversation about how the system we live in perpetuates this kind of violence. After all, every country has mental illness, but only in the U.S. do people shoot up movie theaters because of it. We need to have an actual conversation on how our culture, economic system, and other things take individuals with and without mental illness and radicalize them to the point they commit murder. And in some cases it's not even radicalizing them. In some areas of this country the ability to kill another human being may be an actual prerequisite to your own survival, or at least thats the condition the system has created. how can you be radicalized if not by external forces, that youre either feeding yourself or allowing narratives to fuel you? elsewhere they use bombs, acid, knives etc...whats your point? what is the "actual" conversation we should be having? systems dont just pop up and take power, people do. point out the individuals partaking in said practices that are destroying the livelihoods of people and bring them to light.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Kanyezus said:
And I think people are quick to jump to the mental health debate because it means we don't have to have that larger conversation about how the system we live in perpetuates this kind of violence. After all, every country has mental illness, but only in the U.S. do people shoot up movie theaters because of it. We need to have an actual conversation on how our culture, economic system, and other things take individuals with and without mental illness and radicalize them to the point they commit murder. And in some cases it's not even radicalizing them. In some areas of this country the ability to kill another human being may be an actual prerequisite to your own survival, or at least thats the condition the system has created. how can you be radicalized if not by external forces, that youre either feeding yourself or allowing narratives to fuel you? elsewhere they use bombs, acid, knives etc...whats your point? what is the "actual" conversation we should be having? systems dont just pop up and take power, people do. point out the individuals partaking in said practices that are destroying the livelihoods of people and bring them to light.
what lmao?

people perpetuate the system, that much should be obvious. y'all love to act like people can just live outside of the system when they can't. and i already wrote what we should be talking about in the op.
 

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Kanyezus said:
And I think people are quick to jump to the mental health debate because it means we don't have to have that larger conversation about how the system we live in perpetuates this kind of violence. After all, every country has mental illness, but only in the U.S. do people shoot up movie theaters because of it. We need to have an actual conversation on how our culture, economic system, and other things take individuals with and without mental illness and radicalize them to the point they commit murder. And in some cases it's not even radicalizing them. In some areas of this country the ability to kill another human being may be an actual prerequisite to your own survival, or at least thats the condition the system has created. how can you be radicalized if not by external forces, that youre either feeding yourself or allowing narratives to fuel you? elsewhere they use bombs, acid, knives etc...whats your point? what is the "actual" conversation we should be having? systems dont just pop up and take power, people do. point out the individuals partaking in said practices that are destroying the livelihoods of people and bring them to light.
New copypasta
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Fidelio said:
This is just blatantly untrue
And how do you figure that?

the only thing thats true is that lone wolf actors are more likely to be mentally ill than group actors, and that there is slightly higher schizo rates among terrorists
 
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