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Here's what happened to the "Drugged Out Doc Album", why you'll never hear it and why BBTM "sucks"

11K views 106 replies 54 participants last post by  ASDFCXZ 
#1 ·
This is just a theory but I'm going to offer a bunch of evidence and you guys can tell me what you think of this theory...

AUDIOBOOK LMAO:


SUPER TLDR: So Abel had an obese album done with Doc producing and Illangelo and all the snippets everyone wanted and all the pop stuff but then doc saw the overall vision of the album and all the radio hits and said I don't wanna be part of this album, this isn't the album I worked on and I don't want you guys messing with my songs so it sounds better on the radio just to sell singles, I'm out. Then Abel called Maty, Ed and Lab to fill empty spaces last minute and tada BBTM.

TLDR: None of the songs on the "Nirvana album" ever saw the light of day of because Abel wanted full control of the songs so that he could rework them with Republic so that he could ensure that each and every song on BBTM was radio ready. Honestly that is why the material got vaulted, Abel was trying to put some of the songs from the Doc sessions on BBTM and when they started messing with the sessions Doc got annoyed at them doing things to his songs so that they did better on the radio and would perform better as singles, he also realized radio play had suddenly become a top priority of Abel's so he said he didn't want anything to do with BBTM. I mean clearly that is why 'In The 90s' was reworked, to remove his production (I'll go in depth about this a lil later). Also he tweeted something along the lines of you guys won't be hearing music that you should from me this year because some people don't respect my art a few months before BBTM dropped, clearly when Illangelo / Dannyboy and others would have been messing with his sessions. I don't think Doc is mad at anyone he just didn't want his name attached to an album of singles and have a bunch of people playing with his sessions.. And I mean those tweets finally make sense huh?

PROOF: And in case you don't believe me I remember him saying a couple different times that he refuses to do singles, just look up that interview he did a year back.. he said he's a punk rocker and that he could careless about that kind of shit. That would explain why he got mad and why the whole album got scarped.. I seriously doubt there weren't some songs from that album Abel would have rather had on BBTM, he say how much yall loved that shit but he needed full control of the songs. The only song that survived sorta from the Doc sessions onto the album was Acquainted which was 'In The 90s' this is because Doc had no creative control over the drums or lead synth on that song because even though Doc produced most of 'In The 90s' he didn't do it alone.. Ben Billions did the drums and one of the leads, honestly from the sound of the song it almost sounds like DaHeala & Ben Billions made a demo with Abel, that Abel and Doc later reworked and turned into 'In The 90s'.

I remember when 'In The 90s' dropped it sounded a hell of a lot like Doc's work but I have to say the drums always sounded much more trap influenced then what Doc normally does... But those drums sound so much like Ben's work, like it's insane and 'In The 90s' was even at one point probably going to be the next single after Often... and guess who after Often said they had another record with The Weeknd that also banged.. Ben and guess what else he's credited on Acquainted..! Also this would make since because when Abel and Doc were working on that album it seemed like Abel wasn't working with DannyBoy or Illangelo at all but they are credit on Acquainted.

So that clearly means neither of them did the drums but who was definitely working with Abel heavily during that time besides Doc? Ben Billions and DaHeala because well the fact KOTF is produced by DaHeala and he s/o Doc as his mentor, so clearly they were cool at the time. Also Ben is signed to MMG and Abel meant him in early 2014 when him and Meek did Pullin Up, remember how Meek tweeted about making a song with The Weeknd way back then and then of course Often was produced by Ben Billions and that was probably in the works for a while before it dropped.. Hell remember Doc was RTing KOTF he was probably just waiting for Abel to drop 'In The 90s' off that album but as this album was being finished up Abel quickly put the breaks on everything, remember it totally felt like a XO flood was coming DIL, Often, KOTF and Or Nah was just the start right?... future fuck music.. tons of random Instagram snippets but then nothing...

So now you ask yourself why would he just put the breaks on everything? well it was because he got a call to do an Ariana Grande feature at the time he turned it down but then he looked at what the world thought of Kiss Land he and didn't want to get panned again.. Abel felt trapped and like he hit a glass ceiling, he realized he was kinda just stuck in a loop of making the same album over and over and over again and he had just become this cult god / enigma.. Almost how Lana is a bit but even she had radio play in the past. Also I just think everyone critically was sick of hearing the same Weeknd album for the 4th time but this time with less accessible production / song writing and a few attempts at radio play like Wanderlust, Belong To The World and Live For that all flopped terribly because of flat mixing, forced delivery and most of all because no one knew who he was in the mainstream. Which made things even worse. The whole thing was weird he was like this thing that only had hard core fans online so much so that selling out 20,000 seat venues was no problem yet that in its self was the ceiling he couldn't break as hard as he tired without outside help from his label. He was worried about making the same mistakes again with this album, hell some of the snippets he posted you guys said we're terrible
when they dropped and then right around that time I bet pressure from the label hit, which probably at first made him even more depressed because if he didn't take the Ariana record he was basically saying he didn't want to reach his full potential as a pop star and I'm sure his inner MJ stan couldn't turn down this chance and he felt it was his only way out of this depression he was facing...

And honestly you guys never had him listen to Rolling Stone, listen to the rumors early on of him telling Drake he was going to huge. His idol is MJ the fuckin king of Pop, Abel wanted to be MJ from day one period. Everyone wants to be there idol they don't wanna be something else. Abel did what he had to do to get famous, Abel sat down and realized no one gets famous with pure pop music because they don't have the producers / funding to make good pop music. So Abel put in a year of hard ass work to make something different and aimed the sound that these blogs fuckin love, I'm sure part of him really want to be this R&B mysterious punk rocker but at the end of the day he wasn't sure if he could survive another Kiss Land.

So he took the only way out at the time and called back her people back and said he'd do the feature and he stopped working on this album with Doc, DaHeala and Ben Billions, all those songs got thrown into a big slush of demos he had done and was going to do over the next few months. He opened up to what the label told him to do and the next step was to make a track for 50 shades after the Ariana feature, then they gave Abel a handful of records that were totally finished from Max Martin, hooks and all.. but Abel turned all these down because he wanted to write the songs himself not get a pre-made hit.

He was still not sure what to do or happy with the direction things were going so he reach out to Max personally and said I want to work with you one on one and if you know Max Martin you know he doesn't do that unless you're Dr Luke, signed to his label or Taylor fuckin Swift but then Max went to Abel's show at the Hollywood Bowl and he realized even though it was a risk for him and never does this he would regret not working because of the fact that Abel was selling out the Hollywood Bowl on his own, and that was so important because people normally come to him for hit records so they can someday hope to have that many fans but Abel already had it with not a single hit record to his name.. before seeing Abel at the Hollywood Bowl him and Savan had no idea how popular he was and then after that day they worked out the details and then in November him, his team and Abel wrote INT, CFMC and Shameless.

A lot of this info was pulled from this NY Times podcast: https://audioboom.com/boos/3513747-popcast-the-weeknd?utm_content=buffere645e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

They interviewed Savan about working with Abel.
Doc at that point was starting to get unhappy because a project that seemed like a collaborative album that he had a lot of control over basically turned into a struggle for singles by The Weeknd and Republic.. But for Doc was under the impression that some of his songs would make it onto this album untouched. He tweeted this in November around the time Abel was working with Max

@docmckinney Nov 22. To many cooks in the kitchen makes the food nasty. 10 retweets 18 favorites
Showing he just didn't want anything to do with "singles" and this was his way of mocking Max Martin's team.. and on top of that I'm sure he thought the project was losing it's cohesive sound as a whole. Yet he was still saying he was on the album why? because Abel told him that he still wanted to include the best of his music untouched as they had it from earlier in the year. Other wise why would have Doc been acting okay with all this? but at this point things were getting a bit sour now cause Abel knew he didn't like the way the project was going so he stopped talking with Doc for the next couple of months.. but he was still on board, which is what Abel wanted because he wanted to include the Doc songs to keep the old fans happy.

Next The Weeknd went to the label to make a plan to get new Pop fans but some how keep his Internet / Urban audience.. well the plan he made with the label was rather simple they'd drop a Internet / Urban single and then 2 weeks later they'd drop the Pop single and they'd do this for every single. So Abel linked up with Illangelo and they quickly finished the first Internet / Urban single which was The Hills a song Abel did a while back with Mano. Obviously Illangelo was perfect for this and knew The Weeknd's old sound so he patched up things with Illangelo over night to get this single done. And then over the next few months he made a handful of demos with Dannyboy, Illangelo, DaHeala and Moccio and ended up with demos which is what made up the bulk of what we know as BBTM today,

But now it was getting time to drop The Hills, it was May and the next major question was what should be the first single INT or CFMC, also they needed another Internet / Urban single for Q4 to drop before the second pop single, so he went to the Republic so that focus group INT and CFMC and pick his first single to drop after The Hills, he also wanted their thoughts on 'In The 90s' and the over all reaction was they wanted to change a lot of things about this record.. And I mean all this is why the label had these three records so early and why they leaked! Like did you ever wonder why 'In The 90s' of all songs was with these two huge Max Martin records?

Right around this time everything seemed great right? This album had tons of new records and a bunch to please the old fans via a whole project he did with Doc that he was going to pick the best songs from, last they talked Doc thought he was still on the album and everything was looking amazing! this was going to be the mother of all albums, remember he said it was an obese body of work.. Everyone made it sound like we were going to get 20 songs, fuck yeah right :hhh:

But then things got real weird and sideways so fast.. basically what happened was they were getting ready to drop this monster of an album but everything was a bunch of demos so DaHeela, Abel and Illangelo sat down and started executive producing / reworking the whole album. And we all know how Abel has a track record of letting other producers mess with other people's stuff till he's happy with it and but what was even worse was that he also sat down with more focus groups / people at the label and asked them for help on making every song sound radio polished and ready to be singles, they want an album of singles. This leads to even more people names on the records and more major changes being done.. at this point Abel probably still hadn't talked to Doc since he was guessing he was sour but he made some serious changes to his songs.

Then sometime in June as they start mixing the project shit finally hit the fan.. Doc wasn't happy when he finally found out what they had been doing and he probably thought they butchered all the songs.. I'm not totally sure what happened but he unfollowed Illangelo on Twitter, someone on here tweets him asks him if he's on the album he says sadly no, which took us all as a shock. Then later on Doc tweets the tweet I talked about in the first paragraph saying something along the lines of stupid people are fuckin with my music so you won't get to hear what you were suppose to hear, just in much nicer words. That tweet which made everyone go wait wtf did Abel do.. now makes so much sense fuckin sense with this theory.

Then we are moving into July when a lot people originally thought BBTM was going to drop, I mean CFMF was charting well, The Hills was doing good, Earned It was still doing well. And you look back and you can see the singles came out pretty early for a album that didn't come out for literally months later, also some executive posted a photo on Insatgram in April saying "just talked with this amazing new artists he says you guys won't believe what's coming in July."

So what happened was Doc refused to have any part of this project in June and Abel was out a nice chunk of his album, I'm guessing the first thing he did was finish prisoners and contact Lana about a feature but she's finishing up her album and doesn't get back to him till late July.. but then in early July and we suddenly hear about a new record that Abel made with Ed Sheeran in an afternoon.. I remember at this point everyone is like huh I thought he had an obese body.. what is Abel doing, why would he need more records, what happened with Doc :(

Then Ed said Kanye was the only feature on the album at this point.. which makes almost too much sense with this theory, probably what happened was Abel played Ed what he had left without the Doc songs and at that point Kanye was on the record but no one else and Lana probably hadn't gotten back to him yet, which is why Ed says as of right now Kanye was the only feature, cause Abel probably said something about the Lana record. Side note Ed is over joyed cause he's been a Abel stan since 2011 lol.

Now he is trying to figure out what do with for a second urban single and I'm guessing the idea comes up to at the last minute just have Dannyboy and Illangelo remove anything Doc did from In The 90s and fully rework, the label wanted a different sounding song anyways and he still needed a single for the urban market in Q4 and I'm sure this was the best song for that single, it's not like he could use any of the other Doc songs but this one he can use and rework because remember it was actually half Ben Billions work / half Docs work. This becomes the obviously right move to make.

And then coming into July Abel still had some last minute spaces to fill so he contacts the label about who he can work with fast and he hears Losers and loves it.. at the same time the label probably was like well we have this song new songwriter named Maty Noyes who we've been getting ready to push, I'm sure she has some ideas. So he sits down with her and Moccio and makes Angels, I remember Moccio posting a picture in late July tagging both of them and we were all like wtf? why is he still working on this cause at this point the tracklist had leaked and then he posted it.

Finally after all this the album was done, a month behind schedule but it was finished and that is how we went from a doc album in like summer of 2014 to BBTM with no Doc at all lol.

Again this is just a theory, I'm pulling most this from just what I saw as I checked this forum everyday, y'all do realize even when I don't post I still read every thread ever made in this section every morning lol. I think this all makes sense but I mean think whatever you want. I kinda realized most this a few months back but I didn't want to make a thread cause I had hope that something was going to happen idfk lol. Plus I knew if I made this thread I'd waste an hour of my life typing it and I just did.

The best cast scenario is that Abel and Doc have since talked it over and they both decided it was wise just to hold onto all the old songs and put them out later, the way Doc wanted to and the way he wanted them to sound. For that to have happened I feel like it would have taken some understanding from Abel and acceptance that Doc didn't want anything to do with this project and how it was put together but if that did happen there is a chance maybe we will see this album someday. Also I feel like if anyone could get Illangelo and Doc back together someday, some how it would be Abel so again that would be hoping he patches things up. As of right now it seems we may never see this album but it looks like Abel is cool with Doc or at least sort of and Doc probably wasn't happy with the outcome but it seems like he still respects Abel.​
 
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#2 ·
Man that didn't seem like that many words when I was writing it lol, btw my hands hurt cause I just had to type a paper for school as well so I'm going to spell check this later today. I'm sure there are some mistakes sorry lol.
 
#4 ·
WICKEDGAMES said:
Makes sense. But I don't think Doc is mad or anything...
I thought I made that clear? hmm I'll have to edit that part I must have mistyped, I meant to say doc isn't mad at all and abel isn't either.. Doc unfollowed Illangelo though which makes me think something happened but lord knows. Hopefully we see the godly trio together again some day.
 
#5 ·
WICKEDGAMES said:
Illangelo used to have somewhat of Doc's mindset, but not anymore I feel like.
100% also I still don't buy the fact that just Abel had issues with Doc so he didn't work on EOS I feel like they were at odds with him together a bit.. I feel like when it started Illangelo was young and had much to learn and looked up to Doc as a mentor but by the end Trilogy his thoughts on his changed and he did the three trilogy tracks probably cause Abel really wanted it to be the three of them again but idk yeah his head is just in a much different place.. he just wants to work with Abel closely and then do stuff on the side for other people, like how 40 is to Drake imo.

Again who knows but we at least know they're mindset is very different now lol.
 
#7 ·
A lot of this does make a lot of sense tbh. Idk about Illangelo losing his vision though, I mean listen to that OVO mix he did on beats radio. That shit is great and shows he's clearly still a beast. The Movement, Rochelle & Phlo stuff he did sounds like classic Illangelo as well.

I without a doubt think that Doc really is about that punk rock life and that he's in it 100% for the music and art itself. I fuck with Doc for that alone, he doesn't compromise his sound or creativity for bullshit.
 
#9 ·
godbot said:
How the TLDR still feel like a TLDR :clap:
I got u brah

So Abel had an album done with doc producing and illangelo and all the snippets everyone wants and all the pop stuff but then doc said fuck this shit I don't wanna be part of a pop album and I don't want you guys messing with my shit so it sounds better on the radio, I'm out

Then Abel called maty, Ed and lab to fill empty spaces and tada BBTM
 
#10 ·
Blue Viuda said:
I thought I made that clear? hmm I'll have to edit that part I must have mistyped, I meant to say doc isn't mad at all and abel isn't either.. Doc unfollowed Illangelo though which makes me think something happened but lord knows. Hopefully we see the godly trio together again some day.
Not mad? I'd be fucking pissed. Didn't Doc make music with this ***** since he's been homeless? 2011 n shit? Abel a shady motherfucker. Hope he's falls on his ass from the mainstream high he's on.
 
#14 ·
Blue Viuda said:
I got u brah

So Abel had an album done with doc producing and illangelo and all the snippets everyone wants and all the pop stuff but then doc said fuck this shit I don't wanna be part of a pop album and I don't want you guys messing with my shit so it sounds better on the radio, I'm out

Then Abel called maty, Ed and lab to fill empty spaces and tada BBTM
idk if it was the fact that it was a pop album but more because it wasn't his vision
 
#17 ·
WhoTookMyOpies said:
A lot of this does make a lot of sense tbh. Idk about Illangelo losing his vision though, I mean listen to that OVO mix he did on beats radio. That shit is great and shows he's clearly still a beast. The Movement, Rochelle & Phlo stuff he did sounds like classic Illangelo as well.

I without a doubt think that Doc really is about that punk rock life and that he's in it 100% for the music and art itself. I fuck with Doc for that alone, he doesn't compromise his sound or creativity for bullshit.
I never said he lost his lack of vision cause he didn't he just has a different vision then Doc that's all, I think they made a great pop album

I just think him and Abel saw this as a the huge opportunity that is, like the mixing on the tracks Illangelo did are so amazing

It must have taken hours of work, if I was in there spot id do the same thing in a heartbeat, you can always make tons of different kinds of albums later but you only have so many chances to get in the studio with someone like Max Martin who is the greatest pop producer in history

also hits for an artist are so important and open so many doors for them to have so much freedom later on, I think he'll come around and give us all different kinds of music in the years to come

what's kanye without stronger, gold digger etc
what's drake without hotline bling, best I ever had, forever, im on one, over, started from the bottom, etc

also most you don't listen to a modern day pop at all so you don't understand this but overall for a pop album this is one of the best I've heard in a couple years, barely anyone in pop music focuses on albums all they care about is singles what abel and illangelo did was amazing imo
 
#18 ·
A lot of this seems right, but in the start you say you'll provide evidence, and then procede to say stuff like 'abel sits down with x', 'abel meets up with y', most of that unsubstantiated. I think your observations about IT90s with the drums and such is a very good spot.

All in all, it's obvious he fell out with Doc as he wanted to branch his music out to appeal and Doc didn't fuck with that. I don't think the original album was to be that obese. You're probably right about him scrambling to fill the rest of the album though, probably why sonically it is a bit all over the place.

I think this is the direction his music will take thus far. Can't see a Doc collab ever again, really.
 
#21 ·
POTASSIUM said:
A lot of this seems right, but in the start you say you'll provide evidence, and then procede to say stuff like 'abel sits down with x', 'abel meets up with y', most of that unsubstantiated. I think your observations about IT90s with the drums and such is a very good spot.

All in all, it's obvious he fell out with Doc as he wanted to branch his music out to appeal and Doc didn't fuck with that. I don't think the original album was to be that obese. You're probably right about him scrambling to fill the rest of the album though, probably why sonically it is a bit all over the place.

I think this is the direction his music will take thus far. Can't see a Doc collab ever again, really.
Yeah I totally agree with you, the writing didn't have much support towards the ending and when I started writing this I had a handful of sources to cite most of what I said about producers / colabs like Instagram photos dated when Illangelo started working with Abel again, Dannyboy tweets, meekmill talkin about sending the weeknd a record which is why I think Ben was in the picture that early, I have a news article about Ed talking about making the song in July, another screenshot from Maty dated in July, Illangelo posted a list of every song he mixed on the album.. also I have screenshots of Mano saying he worked with Abel a long ass time ago

but honestly I was afraid of making it too long and I got lazy towards the ending, if this actually gets enough attention I'll clean it up and give better sources

and of course the other 30%+ I can't support which I'd say is where the theory part comes in, I mean there is no way of knowing what really happened with Illangelo or if Illangelo ever touched any of Docs records, that was just a wild guessing cause something went sideways or it at least seemed that way

also I have 0% to back up the fact that Illangelo and Abel worked with a focus group or anyone at Republic to try and change these songs in anyway to make them more radio friendly expect for the fact they had the singles early and that's how they leaked

appreciate that you took the time to read this though and yeah I have to agree doc and abel are on very different pages these days

also I think the OG Doc album was probably like 12 songs feat Often, In The 90s, Tell Your Friends, maybe The Hills and other snippets

they didn't start talking about the obese body till this summer which why I believe docs work was part of it
 
#22 ·
Blue Viuda said:
Yeah I totally agree with you, the writing didn't have much support towards the ending and when I started writing this I had a handful of sources to cite most of what I said about producers / colabs like Instagram photos dated when Illangelo started working with Abel again, Dannyboy tweets, meekmill talkin about sending the weeknd a record which is why I think Ben was in the picture that early, I have a news article about Ed talking about making the song in July, another screenshot from Maty dated in July, Illangelo posted a list of every song he mixed on the album.. also I have screenshots of Mano saying he worked with Abel a long ass time ago
Well if you have all of that as a body to cite as proof, then that definitely adds credence to your argument. It wouldn't be worth your time just doing all of that to add in here, I'll take your word on it.

appreciate that you took the time to read this though and yeah I have to agree doc and abel are on very different pages these days

also I think the OG Doc album was probably like 12 songs feat Often, In The 90s, Tell Your Friends, maybe The Hills and other snippets

they didn't start talking about the obese body till this summer which why I believe docs work was part of it
Hah, no worries. Second year Law student - I'm using to reading larger case analysis articles for my modules weekly, lol.

Hmm, that's true. Who was that first spoke about the obese album?
 
#25 ·
POTASSIUM said:
Well if you have all of that as a body to cite as proof, then that definitely adds credence to your argument. It wouldn't be worth your time just doing all of that to add in here, I'll take your word on it.
Hah, no worries. Second year Law student - I'm using to reading larger case analysis articles for my modules weekly, lol.

Hmm, that's true. Who was that first spoke about the obese album?
Abel, Illangelo and Peter (who's account may have been fake)

Abel must have first tweeted about it when he started switching directions in August of last year, I mean either that or he really loves these records more then every single record him and Doc did lol... maybe he does :dno: and maybe that is why doc tweeted the thing about not hearing music from me because someone else or something along those lines but then there was another doc tweeted then quickly deleted about people messing with his art and then another tweet thoth just brought up proving what I was saying that he didn't like a bunch of hands on his records

@docmckinney Nov 22. To many cooks in the kitchen makes the food nasty. 10 retweets 18 favorites
it's hard to remember them all looking back I wish I just made a big file as this all was happening but everyone was talking in code lmao, at the time it seems a bit odd but looking back it makes way more sense

and haha nice most the people on here don't read anything this long, i felt this was interesting tho and gives some answers because we really had none before
 
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