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Discussion Starter #61
fantumblood said:
I sometimes wonder if there's any bad blood between Doc and Ill, the two used to openly tweet and then things kinda went quiet. A reach and I really hope not but who knows :jordancry:

team trilogy com bak
yeah I talked about the fact that there is probably bad blood between doc and ill in this essay somewhere :sadblu: idk if team trilogy will ever happen again
 

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Discussion Starter #62
also justin timberlake doesn't take demos from anyone expect james and Max doesn't write songs with certain people in mind so that theory / rumor starts making less and less sense
 

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Discussion Starter #63
brandixo98 said:
this is the industry, but itś such a sad fucking story man. :ohno: KL is apart of my soul & I love everything about that album & bump that shit every other day. I remember the fact that Abel said he made that KL creatively and claimed he didn have the radio in mind was admirable to me, but he obviously was trying to get put on from that album and Republic must have knew how bullshit that was but just left him to it  :feels:

( he said they let him do what he wanted with KL, they were probably waiting for the inevitable w/ KL for him come begging to them when the sales came rolling in) . I think it came down to that fear of not becoming great and ego- like you said, he was selling out arenas on KL and were signing CDś every other show. Fans were telling him to his face how much KL meant to them- the sales is what hurt his ego.

Remember the RS interview? that quote about watching his mod show and saying ẗhis guy is not a star? I think he wanted to be that Pop icon from the start ( practicing songs from the noise imagining JT singing them n shit) just during the mixtapes- he was in an environment where there wasa no bullshit to distract him, there was no threat of sales not putting him on or falling out of relevance- it was purely the music, he was  in a dark place, got w/ Doc & Illangelo & there was no ẗrying to be ¨put on¨ or agenda for charts.

He said he signed to Republic because of the pop help they could give him, but i think that only became a factor AFTER he  tried to do it his way. By making KL he assusmed that he could play the industry and charts the way he wanted w/ results, but Iḿ sure some music exe at republic with 25 years of experience knew how naive this was.  But they let it happen becuz they couldn't make him do anything until he felt defeated and gave up and willingly came to them. Abel  was just some kid w/ 3 years in the industry who taught he could control a project( that KL production, yikes :ohno: ) make it his creative vision & appeal to the charts without that Republic help or influence. Theres a reason they call it ¨selling your soul"  :popcorn: :popcorn:
yeah :sadblu: it's just the industry man

he deff did think he could do it himself and write hits without working with a huge producer first, I think he could have if he did stuff with ill and doc but not with dannyboy but ay

at least his biggest song is now produced by mano and illangelo

he is deff going to get his sound into the mainstream this way now
 

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Blue Viuda said:
also justin timberlake doesn't take demos from anyone expect james and Max doesn't write songs with certain people in mind so that theory / rumor starts making less and less sense
Need you to start making Doc-type beats :cryfam:
 

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Discussion Starter #71
side note for everyone saying well abel is holding onto the drugged out doc album for later, id say probably not

i feel like he has move past this album and that old style of writing at this point

at least if what he told Jon Caramanica was true
 

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Blue Viuda said:
side note for everyone saying well abel is holding onto the drugged out doc album for later, id say probably not

i feel like he has move past this album and that old style of writing at this point

at least if what he told Jon Caramanica was true
Apparently at the HMV London meet & greet a month or so ago he said to "wait on it"

Time will tell!
 

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Blue Viuda said:
Yeah I think he did feel trapped and like he hit a glass ceilling, he realized he was kinda just stuck in a loop of making the same album over and over and over again and he had just become this cult god / enigma.. Almost how Lana is a bit but even she had radio play in the past.

Also I just think everyone critically was sick of hearing the same Weeknd album for the 4th time but this time with less accessible production / song writing and a few attempts at radio play like Wanderlust, Belong To The World and Live For that all flopped terribly because of flat mixing, forced delivery and most of all because no one knew who he was in the mainstream. Which made things even worse.

The whole thing was weird he was like this thing that only had hard core fans online so much so that selling out 20,000 seat venues was no problem yet that in its self was the ceilling he couldn't break as hard as he tired without outside help from his label..

He must have been worried about making the same mistakes again with this album, hell some of the snippets you guys said we're terrible when they dropped and then right around that time I bet pressure from the label hit, which probably at first made him even more depressed because if he didn't take the Ariana record he was basically saying he didn't want to reach his full potential as a star, part of him clearly wanted to be a pop star as well and it became the clear way out, and the rest is history.
Flat delivery? Fam the emotive and emotions used in the album coupled with the atmospheric music made it perfect.
 

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commenting to read later at home
RIP G4CW said:
This is just a theory but I'm going to offer a bunch of evidence and you guys can tell me what you think of this theory...

AUDIOBOOK LMAO:
https://soundcloud.com/chrisborn%2Fbbtm

SUPER TLDR: So Abel had an obese album done with Doc producing and Illangelo and all the snippets everyone wanted and all the pop stuff but then doc saw the overall vision of the album and all the radio hits and said I don't wanna be part of this album, this isn't the album I worked on and I don't want you guys messing with my songs so it sounds better on the radio just to sell singles, I'm out. Then Abel called Maty, Ed and Lab to fill empty spaces last minute and tada BBTM.

TLDR: None of the songs on the "Nirvana album" ever saw the light of day of because Abel wanted full control of the songs so that he could rework them with Republic so that he could ensure that each and every song on BBTM was radio ready. Honestly that is why the material got vaulted, Abel was trying to put some of the songs from the Doc sessions on BBTM and when they started messing with the sessions Doc got annoyed at them doing things to his songs so that they did better on the radio and would perform better as singles, he also realized radio play had suddenly become a top priority of Abel's so he said he didn't want anything to do with BBTM. I mean clearly that is why 'In The 90s' was reworked, to remove his production (I'll go in depth about this a lil later). Also he tweeted something along the lines of you guys won't be hearing music that you should from me this year because some people don't respect my art a few months before BBTM dropped, clearly when Illangelo / Dannyboy and others would have been messing with his sessions. I don't think Doc is mad at anyone he just didn't want his name attached to an album of singles and have a bunch of people playing with his sessions.. And I mean those tweets finally make sense huh?

PROOF: And in case you don't believe me I remember him saying a couple different times that he refuses to do singles, just look up that interview he did a year back.. he said he's a punk rocker and that he could careless about that kind of shit. That would explain why he got mad and why the whole album got scarped.. I seriously doubt there weren't some songs from that album Abel would have rather had on BBTM, he say how much yall loved that shit but he needed full control of the songs. The only song that survived sorta from the Doc sessions onto the album was Acquainted which was 'In The 90s' this is because Doc had no creative control over the drums or lead synth on that song because even though Doc produced most of 'In The 90s' he didn't do it alone.. Ben Billions did the drums and one of the leads, honestly from the sound of the song it almost sounds like DaHeala & Ben Billions made a demo with Abel, that Abel and Doc later reworked and turned into 'In The 90s'.

I remember when 'In The 90s' dropped it sounded a hell of a lot like Doc's work but I have to say the drums always sounded much more trap influenced then what Doc normally does... But those drums sound so much like Ben's work, like it's insane and 'In The 90s' was even at one point probably going to be the next single after Often... and guess who after Often said they had another record with The Weeknd that also banged.. Ben and guess what else he's credited on Acquainted..! Also this would make since because when Abel and Doc were working on that album it seemed like Abel wasn't working with DannyBoy or Illangelo at all but they are credit on Acquainted.

So that clearly means neither of them did the drums but who was definitely working with Abel heavily during that time besides Doc? Ben Billions and DaHeala because well the fact KOTF is produced by DaHeala and he s/o Doc as his mentor, so clearly they were cool at the time. Also Ben is signed to MMG and Abel meant him in early 2014 when him and Meek did Pullin Up, remember how Meek tweeted about making a song with The Weeknd way back then and then of course Often was produced by Ben Billions and that was probably in the works for a while before it dropped.. Hell remember Doc was RTing KOTF he was probably just waiting for Abel to drop 'In The 90s' off that album but as this album was being finished up Abel quickly put the breaks on everything, remember it totally felt like a XO flood was coming DIL, Often, KOTF and Or Nah was just the start right?... future fuck music.. tons of random Instagram snippets but then nothing...

So now you ask yourself why would he just put the breaks on everything? well it was because he got a call to do an Ariana Grande feature at the time he turned it down but then he looked at what the world thought of Kiss Land he and didn't want to get panned again.. Abel felt trapped and like he hit a glass ceiling, he realized he was kinda just stuck in a loop of making the same album over and over and over again and he had just become this cult god / enigma.. Almost how Lana is a bit but even she had radio play in the past. Also I just think everyone critically was sick of hearing the same Weeknd album for the 4th time but this time with less accessible production / song writing and a few attempts at radio play like Wanderlust, Belong To The World and Live For that all flopped terribly because of flat mixing, forced delivery and most of all because no one knew who he was in the mainstream. Which made things even worse. The whole thing was weird he was like this thing that only had hard core fans online so much so that selling out 20,000 seat venues was no problem yet that in its self was the ceiling he couldn't break as hard as he tired without outside help from his label. He was worried about making the same mistakes again with this album, hell some of the snippets he posted you guys said we're terrible
when they dropped and then right around that time I bet pressure from the label hit, which probably at first made him even more depressed because if he didn't take the Ariana record he was basically saying he didn't want to reach his full potential as a pop star and I'm sure his inner MJ stan couldn't turn down this chance and he felt it was his only way out of this depression he was facing...

And honestly you guys never had him listen to Rolling Stone, listen to the rumors early on of him telling Drake he was going to huge. His idol is MJ the fuckin king of Pop, Abel wanted to be MJ from day one period. Everyone wants to be there idol they don't wanna be something else. Abel did what he had to do to get famous, Abel sat down and realized no one gets famous with pure pop music because they don't have the producers / funding to make good pop music. So Abel put in a year of hard ass work to make something different and aimed the sound that these blogs fuckin love, I'm sure part of him really want to be this R&B mysterious punk rocker but at the end of the day he wasn't sure if he could survive another Kiss Land.

So he took the only way out at the time and called back her people back and said he'd do the feature and he stopped working on this album with Doc, DaHeala and Ben Billions, all those songs got thrown into a big slush of demos he had done and was going to do over the next few months. He opened up to what the label told him to do and the next step was to make a track for 50 shades after the Ariana feature, then they gave Abel a handful of records that were totally finished from Max Martin, hooks and all.. but Abel turned all these down because he wanted to write the songs himself not get a pre-made hit.

He was still not sure what to do or happy with the direction things were going so he reach out to Max personally and said I want to work with you one on one and if you know Max Martin you know he doesn't do that unless you're Dr Luke, signed to his label or Taylor fuckin Swift but then Max went to Abel's show at the Hollywood Bowl and he realized even though it was a risk for him and never does this he would regret not working because of the fact that Abel was selling out the Hollywood Bowl on his own, and that was so important because people normally come to him for hit records so they can someday hope to have that many fans but Abel already had it with not a single hit record to his name.. before seeing Abel at the Hollywood Bowl him and Savan had no idea how popular he was and then after that day they worked out the details and then in November him, his team and Abel wrote INT, CFMC and Shameless.

Doc at that point was starting to get unhappy because a project that seemed like a collaborative album that he had a lot of control over basically turned into a struggle for singles by The Weeknd and Republic.. But for Doc was under the impression that some of his songs would make it onto this album untouched. He tweeted this in November around the time Abel was working with Max

Showing he just didn't want anything to do with "singles" and this was his way of mocking Max Martin's team.. and on top of that I'm sure he thought the project was losing it's cohesive sound as a whole. Yet he was still saying he was on the album why? because Abel told him that he still wanted to include the best of his music untouched as they had it from earlier in the year. Other wise why would have Doc been acting okay with all this? but  at this point things were getting a bit sour now cause Abel knew he didn't like the way the project was going so he stopped talking with Doc for the next couple of months.. but he was still on board, which is what Abel wanted because he wanted to include the Doc songs to keep the old fans happy.

Next The Weeknd went to the label to make a plan to get new Pop fans but some how keep his Internet / Urban audience.. well the plan he made with the label was rather simple they'd drop a Internet / Urban single and then 2 weeks later they'd drop the Pop single and they'd do this for every single. So Abel linked up with Illangelo and they quickly finished the first Internet / Urban single which was The Hills a song Abel did a while back with Mano. Obviously Illangelo was perfect for this and knew The Weeknd's old sound so he patched up things with Illangelo over night to get this single done. And then over the next few months he made a handful of demos with Dannyboy, Illangelo, DaHeala and Moccio and ended up with demos which is what made up the bulk of what we know as BBTM today,

But now it was getting time to drop The Hills, it was May and the next major question was what should be the first single INT or CFMC, also they needed another Internet / Urban single for Q4 to drop before the second pop single, so he went to the Republic so that focus group INT and CFMC and pick his first single to drop after The Hills, he also wanted their thoughts on 'In The 90s' and the over all reaction was they wanted to change a lot of things about this record.. And I mean all this is why the label had these three records so early and why they leaked! Like did you ever wonder why 'In The 90s' of all songs was with these two huge Max Martin records?

Right around this time everything seemed great right? This album had tons of new records and a bunch to please the old fans via a whole project he did with Doc that he was going to pick the best songs from, last they talked Doc thought he was still on the album and everything was looking amazing! this was going to be the mother of all albums, remember he said it was an obese body of work.. Everyone made it sound like we were going to get 20 songs, fuck yeah right :hhh:

But then things got real weird and sideways so fast.. basically what happened was they were getting ready to drop this monster of an album but everything was a bunch of demos so DaHeela, Abel and Illangelo sat down and started executive producing / reworking the whole album. And we all know how Abel has a track record of letting other producers mess with other people's stuff till he's happy with it and but what was even worse was that he also sat down with more focus groups / people at the label and asked them for help on making every song sound radio polished and ready to be singles, they want an album of singles. This leads to even more people names on the records and more major changes being done.. at this point Abel probably still hadn't talked to Doc since he was guessing he was sour but he made some serious changes to his songs.

Then sometime in June as they start mixing the project shit finally hit the fan.. Doc wasn't happy when he finally found out what they had been doing and he probably thought they butchered all the songs.. I'm not totally sure what happened but he unfollowed Illangelo on Twitter, someone on here tweets him asks him if he's on the album he says sadly no, which took us all as a shock. Then later on Doc tweets the tweet I talked about in the first paragraph saying something along the lines of stupid people are fuckin with my music so you won't get to hear what you were suppose to hear, just in much nicer words. That tweet which made everyone go wait wtf did Abel do.. now makes so much sense fuckin sense with this theory.

Then we are moving into July when a lot people originally thought BBTM was going to drop, I mean CFMF was charting well, The Hills was doing good, Earned It was still doing well. And you look back and you can see the singles came out pretty early for a album that didn't come out for literally months later, also some executive posted a photo on Insatgram in April saying "just talked with this amazing new artists he says you guys won't believe what's coming in July."

So what happened was Doc refused to have any part of this project in June and Abel was out a nice chunk of his album, I'm guessing the first thing he did was finish prisoners and contact Lana about a feature but she's finishing up her album and doesn't get back to him till late July.. but then in early July and we suddenly hear about a new record that Abel made with Ed Sheeran in an afternoon.. I remember at this point everyone is like huh I thought he had an obese body.. what is Abel doing, why would he need more records, what happened with Doc :(

Then Ed said Kanye was the only feature on the album at this point.. which makes almost too much sense with this theory, probably what happened was Abel played Ed what he had left without the Doc songs and at that point Kanye was on the record but no one else and Lana probably hadn't gotten back to him yet, which is why Ed says as of right now Kanye was the only feature, cause Abel probably said something about the Lana record. Side note Ed is over joyed cause he's been a Abel stan since 2011 lol.

Now he is trying to figure out what do with for a second urban single and I'm guessing the idea comes up to at the last minute just have Dannyboy and Illangelo remove anything Doc did from In The 90s and fully rework, the label wanted a different sounding song anyways and he still needed a single for the urban market in Q4 and I'm sure this was the best song for that single, it's not like he could use any of the other Doc songs but this one he can use and rework because remember it was actually half Ben Billions work / half Docs work. This becomes the obviously right move to make.

And then coming into July Abel still had some last minute spaces to fill so he contacts the label about who he can work with fast and he hears Losers and loves it.. at the same time the label probably was like well we have this song new songwriter named Maty Noyes who we've been getting ready to push, I'm sure she has some ideas. So he sits down with her and Moccio and makes Angels, I remember Moccio posting a picture in late July tagging both of them and we were all like wtf? why is he still working on this cause at this point the tracklist had leaked and then he posted it.

Finally after all this the album was done, a month behind schedule but it was finished and that is how we went from a doc album in like summer of 2014 to BBTM with no Doc at all lol.

Again this is just a theory, I'm pulling most this from just what I saw as I checked this forum everyday, y'all do realize even when I don't post I still read every thread ever made in this section every morning lol. I think this all makes sense but I mean think whatever you want. I kinda realized most this a few months back but I didn't want to make a thread cause I had hope that something was going to happen idfk lol. Plus I knew if I made this thread I'd waste an hour of my life typing it and I just did.

The best cast scenario is that Abel and Doc have since talked it over and they both decided it was wise just to hold onto all the old songs and put them out later, the way Doc wanted to and the way he wanted them to sound. For that to have happened I feel like it would have taken some understanding from Abel and acceptance that Doc didn't want anything to do with this project and how it was put together but if that did happen there is a chance maybe we will see this album someday. Also I feel like if anyone could get Illangelo and Doc back together someday, some how it would be Abel so again that would be hoping he patches things up. As of right now it seems we may never see this album but it looks like Abel is cool with Doc or at least sort of and Doc probably wasn't happy with the outcome but it seems like he still respects Abel.
 
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