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Discussion Starter #1
I dont understand a couple things.

For one, how do you know when to use the octet rule? So its not always that each element has to have  eight electrons?

Also.. Does each bond (line ---) you draw count as two electrons toward the element or one?

For example if it's:  H-O-H

does each hydrogen have two electrons or one?
 

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H-O-H means that that the hydrogens are fully bonded meaning that they have two electrons on them, they're kind of sharing them with the oxygen at the same time.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
saadkid08 said:
H-O-H means that that the hydrogens are fully bonded meaning that they have two electrons on them, they're kind of sharing them with the oxygen at the same time.
so does each bond count as 2 electrons total? 2 toward Hydrogen and 2 toward Oxygen?

So in the H-O-H example we have 4 electrons.

Hydrogen 1: 2 electrons
Oxygen: 4 electrons
Hydrogen 2: 2 electrons

thats confusing tho

 

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Dr jo said:
so does each bond count as 2 electrons total? 2 toward Hydrogen and 2 toward Oxygen?

So in the H-O-H example we have 4 electrons.

Hydrogen 1: 2 electrons
Oxygen: 4 electrons
Hydrogen 2: 2 electrons

thats confusing tho
Si senor, tbh lewis structures were never my strong point, funny thing is I'm taking a chem 2 test tomorrow. Pray for me fam.
 

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saadkid08 said:
Si senor, tbh lewis structures were never my strong point, funny thing is I'm taking a chem 2 test tomorrow. Pray for me fam.
good luck fam. Just trying to get this straight though. so in the example H-O-H we are using four electrons correct? But each hydrogen has 2 electrons and oxygen has 4?

Additionally, can you help me understand the octet rule? sorry for bothering you so much
 

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Dr jo said:
good luck fam. Just trying to get this straight though. so in the example H-O-H we are using four electrons correct? But each hydrogen has 2 electrons and oxygen has 4?

Additionally, can you help me understand the octet rule? sorry for bothering you so much
Well ok think of it this way. Every atom has a ring around it right? Well in each atoms rings they want to have 8 atoms, which we call valence electrons. Every atom wants to have eight of these in their rings because it makes the atoms stable and "full' in a sense. Thus you have the octet rule. Hydrogen is an exception to this rule because it only wants 2 valence electrons, because it's a puny ass bitch.  Basically if you look at the periodic table and go down the rows, the atoms in row 1 have 1 atom to give (ex Sodium & Lithium), whereas atoms like carbon have 4 to give. The noble gases at the end of the row (ex. Neon or Argon) are balling out because they have the full eight, they're good. The other atoms want to be like the noble gases and have eight, so they share to make bonds. we'll break down H20 as an example

H <--An H Atom, which only carries 1 valence electron and only has the potential to hold one more.

- <-- A Bond, which represents 2 electrons being shared. One from one atom and the other from another.

O<-- An Oxygen Atom which only carries 6 Valence Electrons. It wants two more.

So when you write H-O-H, you're saying that all the atoms are complete and thus are  full. Oxygen has the full 8 it needs to be full and Hydrogen has the 2 it needs.

Hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
saadkid08 said:
Well ok think of it this way. Every atom has a ring around it right? Well in each atoms rings they want to have 8 atoms, which we call valence electrons. Every atom wants to have eight of these in their rings because it makes the atoms stable and "full' in a sense. Thus you have the octet rule. Hydrogen is an exception to this rule because it only wants 2 valence electrons, because it's a puny ass bitch.  Basically if you look at the periodic table and go down the rows, the atoms in row 1 have 1 atom to give (ex Sodium & Lithium), whereas atoms like carbon have 4 to give. The noble gases at the end of the row (ex. Neon or Argon) are balling out because they have the full eight, they're good. The other atoms want to be like the noble gases and have eight, so they share to make bonds. we'll break down H20 as an example

H <--An H Atom, which only carries 1 valence electron and only has th

- <-- A Bond, which represents 2 electrons being shared. One from one atom and the other from another.

O<-- An Oxygen Atom which only carries 6 Valence Electrons.

So when you write H-O-H, you're saying that all the atoms are complete and thus are  full. Oxygen has the full 8 it needs to be full and Hydrogen has the 2 it needs.

Hope this helps.
Do the centralized elements have to follow the octet rule?
 

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Dr jo said:
Do the centralized elements have to follow the octet rule?
Centralized? Like Scandium and Zinc? Not really they usually have a lot of isotopes, which are a whole nother drama. Did my explanation help?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
saadkid08 said:
Centralized? Like Scandium and Zinc? Not really they usually have a lot of isotopes, which are a whole nother drama. Did my explanation help?
yeah it helped. i meant central element like

H-O-H

O is the central element. do the ones in the middle have to follow the octet rule
 

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Dr jo said:
yeah it helped. i meant central element like

H-O-H

O is the central element. do the ones in the middle have to follow the octet rule
Ohhh I see, they usually do because they tend to attract the atoms to them. They're really electronegative, which means that they're fiending for more valence electrons. Hydrogen isn't really that electronegative, because its small and can only carry another atom.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
saadkid08 said:
Ohhh I see, they usually do because they tend to attract the atoms to them. They're really electronegative, which means that they're fiending for more valence electrons. Hydrogen isn't really that electronegative, because its small and can only carry another atom.
But see for BeF2 for example. Be only has four electrons. its just confusing i never know if it should have eight or not
 

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Dr jo said:
But see for BeF2 for example. Be only has four electrons. its just confusing i never know if it should have eight or not
look at the periodic table.. it only has 2 VE to share so where would you tack on extra electrons
 

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dany fkin heatley said:
look at the periodic table.. it only has 2 VE to share so where would you tack on extra electrons
i still don't get it man... i know it has 2 ve.. but i don't get why that means it doesn't use the octet rule
 

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Dr jo said:
i still don't get it man... i know it has 2 ve.. but i don't get why that means it doesn't use the octet rule
if you only have 2 electrons with Be... and you only have 7 electrons per fluorine. how are you going to magically add electrons?

what would be better... 2 full octets (one on each F) or move some electrons from fluorine to Be to only have 1 octet?



 

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Discussion Starter #15
dany fkin heatley said:
if you only have 2 electrons with Be... and you only have 7 electrons per fluorine. how are you going to magically add electrons?

what would be better... 2 full octets (one on each F) or move some electrons from fluorine to Be to only have 1 octet?
i mean so your telling me there's no real way of knowing if its an octet rule or not unless the elements are completely on the other side of the periodic table?
 

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Dr jo said:
i mean so your telling me there's no real way of knowing if its an octet rule or not unless the elements are completely on the other side of the periodic table?
i mean there is no 100% set rule but ya obviously you will never have a full octet from the first 2 groups because they only have 1 or 2 electron...

electrons want a full octet. therefore electrons will be shared between different atoms to get as many octets as possible. you can't magically add in or subtract electrons... just count how many each atom has and make sure that is how much you end up with.

 

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Discussion Starter #17
dany fkin heatley said:
i mean there is no 100% set rule but ya obviously you will never have a full octet from the first 2 groups because they only have 1 or 2 electron...

electrons want a full octet. therefore electrons will be shared between different atoms to get as many octets as possible. you can't magically add in or subtract electrons... just count how many each atom has and make sure that is how much you end up with.
Ok fam thanks I still really don't get it but I appreciate the help 
 

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Dr jo said:
Ok fam thanks I still really don't get it but I appreciate the help 
maybe ask for a few ones you don't get and if i explain them u'll see the pattern? idk lewis structure just takes practice and u ll get it down. good luck :h5:
 

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Dr jo said:
Ok fam thanks I still really don't get it but I appreciate the help 
lets pretend egg cartons have 8 holders instead of 12.

Ben (Be) has 2 eggs while Fergie has 7 eggs and Fernando (F) has 7, too. You either want an empty carton of eggs or a full carton of eggs (who wants to carry around a huge carton and only have 3 eggs...).

What are the possibilities?

1) you can give 1 egg to fergie and 1 egg to fernando... now ben has an empty carton and is happy... Fergie and Fernando have full cartons and they are happy too.

2) You could make fergie give 6 eggs to ben and 1 egg to fernando. HOWEVER, Fergie and Fernando are greedy (electronegative) and try to hoard all of the eggs so fergie would be pissed. this doesn't work. also that would be more inefficient

3) you could give 3 eggs from fernando and 3 from fergie to ben but then you have half full cartons of eggs so that doesn't work either.



idk i give up lol
 

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Discussion Starter #20
dany fkin heatley said:
lets pretend egg cartons have 8 holders instead of 12.

Ben (Be) has 2 eggs while Fergie has 7 eggs and Fernando (F) has 7, too. You either want an empty carton of eggs or a full carton of eggs (who wants to carry around a huge carton and only have 3 eggs...).

What are the possibilities?

1) you can give 1 egg to fergie and 1 egg to fernando... now ben has an empty carton and is happy... Fergie and Fernando have full cartons and they are happy too.

2) You could make fergie give 6 eggs to ben and 1 egg to fernando. HOWEVER, Fergie and Fernando are greedy (electronegative) and try to hoard all of the eggs so fergie would be pissed. this doesn't work. also that would be more inefficient

3) you could give 3 eggs from fernando and 3 from fergie to ben but then you have half full cartons of eggs so that doesn't work either.



idk i give up lol
I mean it all sounds good and that all makes sense but I just need to practice it more tbh. I appreciate the help fam. So basically the ones already closet to eight will get the octet rule?
 
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