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This is quite the interesting debate and one of the worst show of partisan politics.  You really cant blame the the politicians cause both sides think they have the support of the American people when in reality the Majority of the American people have no idea what's going on. 

Honestly I believe the debt ceiling needs to be raised but there do need to be cuts, but where do you make the cuts?  The defense budget is he obvious choice but I don't know how much can be cut from there.  I am afraid taxes need to be raised.  There is no way to get around it, they do. 

What is really frustrating is when the tea party patriots butch about tax rates then bitch about losing Medicare/SS benefits, then complain about the can being kicked further down the road.  F they are serious about debt reduction then sacrifices will have to be made.


Honestly the best thing for this situation is for the markets to open tomorrow and drop 8% each.  People will realize this situation can't be fucked with, and what people think is reality.
 

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We COULD bump the top tax rate to 70% (The level it was in the seventies) and cut the defense budget.
Edit: The top tax rate is roughly 30% right now.
2nd Edit: You also misspelled "ceiling."
 

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Hamington said:
We COULD bump the top tax rate to 70% (The level it was in the seventies) and cut the defense budget.
Edit: The top tax rate is roughly 30% right now.
2nd Edit: You also misspelled "ceiling."
Seventy percent is too high.

I don't care that I misspelled it.
 

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You can actually place blame on one side which is the Republicans who do not have the majority of Americans in mind. They are choosing to play with the debt ceiling in order to push their economic plans. Historically the debt ceiling has always been an individual thing. The debt ceiling should be raised and then figure out a plan to fix the economy.
 

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The debt ceiling needs to be raised, it was raised 7 times no problem under the Bush Administration. Now when we spent too much, it becomes a problem. They are trying to do too much with too little time. Raise the ceiling and then work on a balanced budget. Why try to kill two birds with one stone when the aim is bad?
 

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Basically what everyone said in this thread. Raise the ceiling.

The cuts Republicans wanna make are on public works like medicare and social security. There's basically no revenue in their budget plans, only cuts.

How are we to cut a deficit without getting revenue?

Easy, tax the rich (what the dems wanna do). They are already paying less taxes than most working people PLUS they have ways to get around paying taxes (like cuts for different buisness ventures) that the middle class can't acquire.

Republicans and tea partiers are basically looking to help the rich, while dems are trying to help the middle class in the budget.
 

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Yerp said:
Basically what everyone said in this thread. Raise the ceiling.

The cuts Republicans wanna make are on public works like medicare and social security. There's basically no revenue in their budget plans, only cuts.

How are we to cut a deficit without getting revenue?

Easy, tax the rich (what the dems wanna do). They are already paying less taxes than most working people PLUS they have ways to get around paying taxes (like cuts for different buisness ventures) that the middle class can't acquire.

Republicans and tea partiers are basically looking to help the rich, while dems are trying to help the middle class in the budget.
respectfully... how well do you understand economics?
the government has spent ludicrous amounts of money since bush agreed to the first government bailout, mostly thanks to the democrat majority in congress. The economic problems that we see in the news today (being the weakness of the dollar, unemployment, the financial struggles of many american businesses) can all be traced back to this spending, the debt it has incurred, and the means through which the government has sought out trying to fund this spending i.e. taxes.

In a bear market as bad as the one we are in does it really make sense to increase taxes and take money from the people in our country that run businesses, consume goods, and push forward the economy? All blocking a raise in the debt ceiling would do is make it so that the american government can not go anymore into the red than it already is and put a cap on the extraneous spending that is in place. it is irresponsible for the government to spend the way it has, and doing it more will just hurt the dollar against east asian markets (namely china). The president has come out and try to argue that blocking a raise in the debt ceiling will cut deep into public works like medicare and social security, but this simply is not true as he and or congress could just prioritize these expendetures so that they would be funded, while cutting back on less important programs, like for instance, the 7 trillion dollar socialized health plan they decided to institute when the economy wasnt in any condition to support it.  :facepalm2:


the whole situation is a joke.
taxation and government regulation are what destroy an economy. the russians saw it when lenin tried to put in place a true marxist economy, the chinese saw it with mao, the EU is seeing it all over the place at the moment (looking at you greece), we dont need to spend we need to cut so that business can flourish and bring back the economy. the profits then flow into the government through non inflated taxes which can fund programs and such. its all about the trickle-down
 

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westside said:
This is so far from the truth that I won't waste time trying to convince you otherwise. Read this instead.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-debt-ceiling/2011/07/11/gIQA3mPTTI_blog.html
I meant it in the sense that blocking a raise in the debt ceiling would create serious negative consequences for the continuation of the unchecked spending the government has been doing and force us to cut back on it so that we can slowly move towards balancing the budget... thought i made that clear with the rest of my post about the government's spending, how its killing the economy, and why it needs to be stopped.
 

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mk121 said:
I meant it in the sense that blocking a raise in the debt ceiling would create serious negative consequences for the continuation of the unchecked spending the government has been doing and force us to cut back on it so that we can slowly move towards balancing the budget... thought i made that clear with the rest of my post about the government's spending, how its killing the economy, and why it needs to be stopped.
I agree that Government spending needs to be reduced but doing it by not raising the debt ceiling is the dumbest thing you can do. The debt ceiling is a completely different issue from government spending, they should have never been grouped in the first place. But now we are too far down the road to turn around. I think the plan that should get pass will get rid of loopholes, cut spending, and raise the debt ceiling pass 2012.
 

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Anyone watch the Presidential Address? Speaker Bohner wants a short term deal while the President wants a legitimate 10 year deficit spending cut with an increased ceiling. If nothing works out for the deals, they need at LEAST raise the ceiling. Because they risking a lot more problems if they don't
 

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mk121 said:
respectfully... how well do you understand economics?
the government has spent ludicrous amounts of money since bush agreed to the first government bailout, mostly thanks to the democrat majority in congress. The economic problems that we see in the news today (being the weakness of the dollar, unemployment, the financial struggles of many american businesses) can all be traced back to this spending, the debt it has incurred, and the means through which the government has sought out trying to fund this spending i.e. taxes.

In a bear market as bad as the one we are in does it really make sense to increase taxes and take money from the people in our country that run businesses, consume goods, and push forward the economy? All blocking a raise in the debt ceiling would do is make it so that the american government can not go anymore into the red than it already is and put a cap on the extraneous spending that is in place. it is irresponsible for the government to spend the way it has, and doing it more will just hurt the dollar against east asian markets (namely china). The president has come out and try to argue that blocking a raise in the debt ceiling will cut deep into public works like medicare and social security, but this simply is not true as he and or congress could just prioritize these expendetures so that they would be funded, while cutting back on less important programs, like for instance, the 7 trillion dollar socialized health plan they decided to institute when the economy wasnt in any condition to support it.  :facepalm2:


the whole situation is a joke.
taxation and government regulation are what destroy an economy. the russians saw it when lenin tried to put in place a true marxist economy, the chinese saw it with mao, the EU is seeing it all over the place at the moment (looking at you greece), we dont need to spend we need to cut so that business can flourish and bring back the economy. the profits then flow into the government through non inflated taxes which can fund programs and such. its all about the trickle-down
I'm an econ minor.

You honestly think the trickle down works? You do realize Reganomics wasn't really that successful right?

Anyways, the spending the goverment did HAD to occur. If the public sector isn't spending money to help the economy, its up to the private sector to spend ala the Keynesian school.
 

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Yerp said:
I'm an econ minor.

You honestly think the trickle down works? You do realize Reganomics wasn't really that successful right?

Anyways, the spending the goverment did HAD to occur. If the public sector isn't spending money to help the economy, its up to the private sector to spend ala the Keynesian school.
Trickle down theory doesn't work in these economic times. Instead of using the wealthy as a catalyst, middle class america can fix the economy issues. The wealthy keep getting tax breaks for what reason, they aren't spending as much.. but they purchase more expensive items.
 

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Ivy Crimson said:
Trickle down theory doesn't work in these economic times. Instead of using the wealthy as a catalyst, middle class america can fix the economy issues. The wealthy keep getting tax breaks for what reason, they aren't spending as much.. but they purchase more expensive items.
Trickle down doesn't work PERIOD. To give money to the rich so they can make jobs and shit works IN THEORY, but we've seen what happens when big buisness isn't checked. The rich get richer without creating jobs or investing their money in this kind of market.
 

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Trickle down economics is about as foolish as saying that tax cuts create jobs or saying the rich are job creators
 

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Ivy Crimson said:
Anyone watch the Presidential Address? Speaker Bohner wants a short term deal while the President wants a legitimate 10 year deficit spending cut with an increased ceiling. If nothing works out for the deals, they need at LEAST raise the ceiling. Because they risking a lot more problems if they don't
Heard it, of course the Republicans want a short term deal so they could make it an election issue in 2012. If this economy falls apart, they won't have to worry about an election since their party will be down the toilet. People won't forget their extortion and selfishness.
 

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westside said:
Heard it, of course the Republicans want a short term deal so they could make it an election issue in 2012. If this economy falls apart, they won't have to worry about an election since their party will be down the toilet. People won't forget their extortion and selfishness.
The sad thing is the election will still be 50 50 with the morons blaming it on Obama since he was the President at the time.
 

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Spythe said:
The sad thing is the election will still be 50 50 with the morons blaming it on Obama since he was the President at the time.
Probably. However, if we default because the Tea Party jeopardized everything, Obama will remind people he put his party principles on the line and put the economy and country first. The Republican nomination field is pretty weak too, but the Dems would gain a ton of momentum to take the House back if shit hits the fan. Too bad they wouldn't get much done even if they had both parts of the legislation again.
 

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westside said:
Probably. However, if we default because the Tea Party jeopardized everything, Obama will remind people he put his party principles on the line and put the economy and country first. The Republican nomination field is pretty weak too, but the Dems would gain a ton of momentum to take the House back if shit hits the fan. Too bad they wouldn't get much done even if they had both parts of the legislation again.
Yeah I honestly don't understand how anyone can be a Republican this day and age. Maybe 10 or 15 years ago. But know they don't seem the give a fuck about the medium class and they are showing.
 
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