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Discussion Starter #1
I normally try to stay out of the Black Lives Matter discussions because it's one that gets very heated and I can honestly see both sides points. However, I feel that we need to go ahead and have a discussion on this topic now that we have police men being killed in Dallas (and supposedly some "cop hunting purge night" being planned in Baton Rouge). I have now seen multiple people on Facebook cheering on the murder of police, and this is definitely taking the wrong path here.

Now this post is not a "Blue Lives Matter" post, nor is it intended to take away from either of the two recent murders. If you feel that something was done against protocol in those cases, then you have every right to be outraged by that. But consider that cops killing blacks disproportionately, if statistically true, is a symptom of a bigger issue. Why are cops killing blacks disproportionately?

When discussing this, normally, people will say something like "blacks make up a quarter of the people killed by police and only make up 12% of the population". These numbers are accurate, but it's not a very accurate way to look at these numbers.

A more accurate way to look at the statistics here would be to go by crime rate. Statistics from the Bureau of Justice Statistics reveal that blacks were charged with 62 percent of robberies, 57 percent of murders and 45 percent of assaults in the 75 biggest counties in the country, despite only making up roughly 15 percent of the populations of those counties.

When you consider that, you'll realize that blacks come into contact with cops in hostile situations more often because, statistically, they're committing crimes more often. Considering this, it's actually somewhat surprising that cops are still killing whites in higher numbers (though at a lower rate) than they are killing blacks.

These numbers are where the real issues come in. Why do blacks commit more crimes than whites, by a very large margin? The reason, which seems obvious, is systematic oppression.

I think this is something that most of us would agree on.

You have less money being pumped into these black communities for education, more people growing up fatherless because of this system and the war on drugs, etc. Poverty breeds crime, and crime breeds poverty.

Rather than getting angry at the police, we should be looking at the cause of that problem- that isn't police training, it isn't body cams, though those things still help- it's the systematic oppression that black communities face daily. We should be putting our energy towards that instead of creating this "blacks vs police" shit that will only end in tragedy.

Also:
Theory said:
I think the reason that cops view blacks as more of a threat than whites, is because statistically they will bump into more white citizens that aren't criminals than they will bump into black citizens who aren't criminals. Hell, they may be white themselves. That's where I believe racial profiling comes from.

Issues I have with the anti cop rhetoric: 1) less black citizens growing up and saying "I want to be a cop". We need more black citizens on the police force to protect other members of their communities. 2) makes relations between black communities and cops even worse. If you were worried about getting pulled over out of the fear that the cop hated you because of your skin color, you'll need to be even more scared now. They're seeing people just like them getting murdered and hearing about how members of the black community are cheering it on. That's not going to encourage cops to be more friendly to blacks, it's going to piss them off.

I agree that body cams and better training should still be addressed and done, because they will certainly help, but I'm saying those aren't the root problems. If you want to fix this problem you've got to fix the black communities.

How do you do this?

1. End the war on drugs. The money you save/make on taxation should be pumped back into the education system, specifically to put all public schools on the same level of funding. If drugs are legal, you'll have much less gang activity. You'll also have more black fathers staying out of jails and with their families.

2. Crack down on illegal immigration specifically in black communities. Illegal immigration statistically takes jobs from blacks more so than anybody else.

3. Recruit more black officers to work in black communities and neighborhoods. Allow these communities to be policed by their own. You don't want an exclusively black police force because then you end up looking like segregation, but you want these communities to feel comfortable and protected by the people meant to protect them.

4. This may sound rough but many people would agree that abortions should be easier to obtain, specifically for lower income areas. These are the people who need it the most and currently have the most trouble obtaining them.
 

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training isn't the problem tho it's systematic racism in the police force across the USA

edit:  misunderstood your post my bad :koolaid:
 

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An elaborate way of saying "what about black on black crime"

:khaled:

I'm playing, yes, it's known that black people are committing a good amount of crimes and honestly all this poverty will never be sorted out - gentrification will make a poor community better except all those poor people are going to leave.

Some people on this site believes that there are actually decent schools in these impoverished areas which is nothing but horseshit; maybe once in awhile you'll find a school that manages to get their students through but majority of the time, if the teachers don't care then why would students? These schools are in poor conditions, all equipment are most likely in somewhat bad shape.

It reminds me of this book I read (set in the 20s-50s idk) the black kids would often go to poorer schools and would get the books that the white children had (which meant dicks drawn in and pages ripped). I'm not saying that this is the way it is today (in regards to race) but this most likely the way it is with a good amount of these schools.

Single parent households stem from history and the apparent destruction of the black family, I believe owners forced families apart? Even then, black families had a mother and a father back in the 40s/50s so what happened from that point?

The problem is still police training and body crimes. If you somehow managed to get these people out of poverty it's not going to change the way some police officers see black people, it won't stop racial profiling etc.
 

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I talked to one person from Chi and he said that he saw every race committing crime so maybe it's not just black people.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
KELYE said:
An elaborate way of saying "what about black on black crime"

:khaled:

I'm playing, yes, it's known that black people are committing a good amount of crimes and honestly all this poverty will never be sorted out - gentrification will make a poor community better except all those poor people are going to leave.

Some people on this site believes that there are actually decent schools in this impoverished areas which is nothing but horseshit; maybe once in awhile you'll find a school that manages to get their students through but majority of the time, if the teachers don't care then why would students? These schools are in poor conditions, all equipment are most likely in somewhat bad shape.

It reminds me of this book I read (set in the 20s-50s idk) the black kids would often go to poorer schools and would get the books that the white children had (which meant dicks drawn in and pages ripped). I'm not saying that this is the way it is today (in regards to race) but this most likely the way it is with a good amount of these schools.

Single parent households stem from history and the apparent destruction of the black family, I believe owners forced families apart? Even then, black families had a mother and a father back in the 40s/50s so what happened from that point?

The problem is still police training and body crimes. If you somehow managed to get these people out of poverty it's not going to change the way some police officers see black people, it won't stop racial profiling etc.
I think the reason that cops view blacks as more of a threat than whites, is because statistically they will bump into more white citizens that aren't criminals than they will bump into black citizens who aren't criminals. Hell, they may be white themselves. That's where I believe racial profiling comes from.

Issues I have with the anti cop rhetoric: 1) less black citizens growing up and saying "I want to be a cop". We need more black citizens on the police force to protect other members of their communities. 2) makes relations between black communities and cops even worse. If you were worried about getting pulled over out of the fear that the cop hated you because of your skin color, you'll need to be even more scared now. They're seeing people just like them getting murdered and hearing about how members of the black community are cheering it on. That's not going to encourage cops to be more friendly to blacks, it's going to piss them off.

I agree that body cams and better training should still be addressed and done, because they will certainly help, but I'm saying those aren't the root problems. If you want to fix this problem you've got to fix the black communities.

How do you do this?

1. End the war on drugs. The money you save/make on taxation should be pumped back into the education system, specifically to put all public schools on the same level of funding. If drugs are legal, you'll have much less gang activity. You'll also have more black fathers staying out of jails and with their families.

2. Crack down on illegal immigration specifically in black communities. Illegal immigration statistically takes jobs from blacks more so than anybody else.

3. Recruit more black officers to work in black communities and neighborhoods. Allow these communities to be policed by their own. You don't want an exclusively black police force because then you end up looking like segregation, but you want these communities to feel comfortable and protected by the people meant to protect them.

4. This may sound rough but many people would agree that abortions should be easier to obtain, specifically for lower income areas. These are the people who need it the most and currently have the most trouble obtaining them.
 

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Theory said:
1. End the war on drugs. The money you save/make on taxation should be pumped back into the education system, specifically to put all public schools on the same level of funding. If drugs are legal, you'll have much less gang activity. You'll also have more black fathers staying out of jails and with their families.

2. Crack down on illegal immigration specifically in black communities. Illegal immigration statistically takes jobs from blacks more so than anybody else.

3. Recruit more black officers to work in black communities and neighborhoods. Allow these communities to be policed by their own. You don't want an exclusively black police force because then you end up looking like segregation, but you want these communities to feel comfortable and protected by the people meant to protect them.

4. This may sound rough but many people would agree that abortions should be easier to obtain, specifically for lower income areas. These are the people who need it the most and currently have the most trouble obtaining them.
I don't disagree with those points :mm:

Although I have to say, it doesn't really matter if these police officers are black because black people see them the same. They see them this way because some of these guys stand back (or are too scared to say anything) from injustices.

This also stems back to the 90's where black police officers saw themselves as more superior to ordinary black people.

Single parent households will cease to exist if the one true root = education is sorted out. The small percentage that manage to make it out of school and attain some small success go on to maybe have a full family.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
KELYE said:
I don't disagree with those points :mm:

Although I have to say, it doesn't really matter if these police officers are black because black people see them the same. They see them this way because some of these guys stand back (or are too scared to say anything) from injustices.

This also stems back to the 90's where black police officers saw themselves as more superior to ordinary black people.

Single parent households will cease to exist if the one true root = education is sorted out. The small percentage that manage to make it out of school and attain some small success go on to maybe have a full family.
Studies also show that black cops shoot 3 times as often as white cops. Not sure what race they shoot at most, if it were shooting at other blacks then we would have another issue to deal with. But as far as feeling accepted and not judged on the color of their skin, I feel that a black police force would be the best bet for them. At least that way you would have much much less racially motivated police brutality.
 

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Theory said:
Studies also show that black cops shoot 3 times as often as white cops. Not sure what race they shoot at most, if it were shooting at other blacks then we would have another issue to deal with. But as far as feeling accepted and not judged on the color of their skin, I feel that a black police force would be the best bet for them. At least that way you would have much much less racially motivated police brutality.

Unfortunately it's a terrible thing. Imo I just don't think having black police officers will sort the problem out; as you said, poverty needs to be worked on and then eventually training police to follow procedure better and then there may be more trust for the force.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
KELYE said:
Unfortunately it's a terrible thing. Imo I just don't think having black police officers will sort the problem out; as you said, poverty needs to be worked on and then eventually training police to follow procedure better and then there may be more trust for the force.
Education will definitely help future generations. Ending the war on drugs and cracking down on illegal immigration though will have a more immediate positive affect within black communities. Fixing the broken education system though is something that needs to be done as soon as possible
 

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Theory said:
I think the reason that cops view blacks as more of a threat than whites, is because statistically they will bump into more white citizens that aren't criminals than they will bump into black citizens who aren't criminals. Hell, they may be white themselves. That's where I believe racial profiling comes from.

Issues I have with the anti cop rhetoric: 1) less black citizens growing up and saying "I want to be a cop". We need more black citizens on the police force to protect other members of their communities. 2) makes relations between black communities and cops even worse. If you were worried about getting pulled over out of the fear that the cop hated you because of your skin color, you'll need to be even more scared now. They're seeing people just like them getting murdered and hearing about how members of the black community are cheering it on. That's not going to encourage cops to be more friendly to blacks, it's going to piss them off.

I agree that body cams and better training should still be addressed and done, because they will certainly help, but I'm saying those aren't the root problems. If you want to fix this problem you've got to fix the black communities.

How do you do this?

1. End the war on drugs. The money you save/make on taxation should be pumped back into the education system, specifically to put all public schools on the same level of funding. If drugs are legal, you'll have much less gang activity. You'll also have more black fathers staying out of jails and with their families.

2. Crack down on illegal immigration specifically in black communities. Illegal immigration statistically takes jobs from blacks more so than anybody else.

3. Recruit more black officers to work in black communities and neighborhoods. Allow these communities to be policed by their own. You don't want an exclusively black police force because then you end up looking like segregation, but you want these communities to feel comfortable and protected by the people meant to protect them.

4. This may sound rough but many people would agree that abortions should be easier to obtain, specifically for lower income areas. These are the people who need it the most and currently have the most trouble obtaining them.
 

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Theory said:
Studies also show that black cops shoot 3 times as often as white cops. Not sure what race they shoot at most, if it were shooting at other blacks then we would have another issue to deal with. But as far as feeling accepted and not judged on the color of their skin, I feel that a black police force would be the best bet for them. At least that way you would have much much less racially motivated police brutality.
link for those studies
 

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Theory said:
I think the reason that cops view blacks as more of a threat than whites, is because statistically they will bump into more white citizens that aren't criminals than they will bump into black citizens who aren't criminals. Hell, they may be white themselves. That's where I believe racial profiling comes from.

Issues I have with the anti cop rhetoric: 1) less black citizens growing up and saying "I want to be a cop". We need more black citizens on the police force to protect other members of their communities. 2) makes relations between black communities and cops even worse. If you were worried about getting pulled over out of the fear that the cop hated you because of your skin color, you'll need to be even more scared now. They're seeing people just like them getting murdered and hearing about how members of the black community are cheering it on. That's not going to encourage cops to be more friendly to blacks, it's going to piss them off.

I agree that body cams and better training should still be addressed and done, because they will certainly help, but I'm saying those aren't the root problems. If you want to fix this problem you've got to fix the black communities.

How do you do this?

1. End the war on drugs. The money you save/make on taxation should be pumped back into the education system, specifically to put all public schools on the same level of funding. If drugs are legal, you'll have much less gang activity. You'll also have more black fathers staying out of jails and with their families.

2. Crack down on illegal immigration specifically in black communities. Illegal immigration statistically takes jobs from blacks more so than anybody else.

3. Recruit more black officers to work in black communities and neighborhoods. Allow these communities to be policed by their own. You don't want an exclusively black police force because then you end up looking like segregation, but you want these communities to feel comfortable and protected by the people meant to protect them.

4. This may sound rough but many people would agree that abortions should be easier to obtain, specifically for lower income areas. These are the people who need it the most and currently have the most trouble obtaining them.
All good points
 
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