Kanye to The banner

1 - 20 of 102 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
18,305 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Seeing as many of you guys got scammed out here recently, I'll give you some basic legal pointers in terms of transactions and remedies available to you in the event someone does outsmart you. And I'll do my best to make this common sense for you guys.  I'll add this info and make this thread all pretty later... I'm blocked out schedule wise through the week fam....

I want you guys to see this 💵💰 💵💰 💵💰, not this 💸💸💸 💸💸💸


Objective:

This thread is NOT intended to replace the use of legal counsel in the event of an actual issue. In that case, I highly recommend you seek help of a lawyer if you have a legitimate claim.

The purpose of this thread is to make it more difficult for people to steal from you and to make it easier to prove that you have been wronged. My intention is that these tips will deter potential wrong-doers and make it easier to shakedown the ones that were stupid enough to do it anyways.



Quick Tips:

- Date of Creation: Always have some form of official documentation/record/verification concerning your productions and songs. If you make a beat, save the project file. Tuck it away with screenshots of the file & the date of creation. Take a video the day you finish a track with a newspaper. Show it to a friend. Anything you can think of to officially document that you've made an instrumental. You want as much evidence as possible to verify that you are in fact the creator of a work if someone has your work.

- Tagging: Tag your beats. I'm sorry, but I've seen a little bit of ridiculous advice given on the web for people to not tag their beats when they send them. Technically, lack of tagging (like watermarking in graphic design) isn't a valid defense to copyright infringement, but it just makes it that much easier to steal your work. If a singer/rapper really wants your song, they'll respond back. In the event they do respond back, make sure you explicitly define the terms of use. For example, if they like your beat and ask you to send, a defense they may raise is that you gave implied consent by sending a non-tagged version with no other terms. Yes it can be counter-argued but why even open yourself to that when you can prevent it from the start.

-....



To Copyright or Not to Copyright:
coming soon

Making a Contract:
coming soon

Legal Remedies:
coming soon
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,169 Posts
Artist guide to charging for a verse?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,169 Posts
Prince Al said:
Good luck.
I mean, if producers charge for instrumentals, we as artist might as well charge for our talents, with all due respect. Writing & performing isn't as easy as some may put it.

For producers to give free beats, only helps them, if anything. Both parties are exposed, producer & vocalist.

Being both a vocalist & producer, I know it doesn't feel good when someone goes over your beat w/o permission, but it also feels good cause they could. Gives you an indication that it's possible. Also shows that they liked it enough to express themselves on it.

Plus the public, now-a-days, recognizes it's producers AND vocalist.

Should an artist tag their verses with ridiculous ad-libs? lol Let's be honest, if you haven't produced for someone relevant, you, by all means, shouldn't charge for production.

THOUGH, I have recently paid some for their services. That's only out of business kindness. 
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
18,305 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Goliva said:
I mean, if producers charge for instrumentals, we as artist might as well charge for our talents, with all due respect. Writing & performing isn't as easy as some may put it.

For producers to give free beats, only helps them, if anything. Both parties are exposed, producer & vocalist.

Being both a vocalist & producer, I know it doesn't feel good when someone goes over your beat w/o permission, but it also feels good cause they could. Gives you an indication that it's possible. Also shows that they liked it enough to express themselves on it.

Plus the public, now-a-days, recognizes it's producers AND vocalist.

Should an artist tag their verses with ridiculous ad-libs? lol Let's be honest, if you haven't produced for someone relevant, you, by all means, shouldn't charge for production.

THOUGH, I have recently paid some for their services. That's only out of business kindness. 
The notion that producers shouldn't charge unless they are famous isn't valid, because everyone else who does work gets paid. People who own small businesses, graphic designers, etc... all those people get exposure by having someone else work for them, but guess what, you don't see them giving their work for free? Why, because they provide a product and or service, and like any other red-blooded American who values free enterprise, want compensation for their services.

We could debate all day about whether producers or artist should pay, but the fact of the matter is, a producer has no need to pay for verses because a rapper's verse has no utility for us. We aren't releasing albums & mix tapes with verses and we don't tour, sell, and release our music.  More importably, we sure as hell wouldn't need a rapper if we did want to do sell and promote instrumental music, whereas rappers and singers would be relegated to poetry night at jazz clubs. Any producer can pull together a band or DJ set and throw a middle finger to a rapper, so that's not a good leverage point.  Rappers and vocalists get to sell the song to however many people you want, you can perform it, you can remix it, you can distribute it across the nation. It's not like we're making money from you but you don't have a way to make money.

Fact is, you need us, the same way you need engineers, distributors, advertisers, managers, and agents. You guys are the end of the rung... you distribute the final product. You don't get to ask for people to support you for hypothetical exposure. You own a restaurant, you don't tell the beef supplier that they get exposure from your serving their food in the rare circumstance that another restaurant owner orders and requests to know where the stake came from. As a graphic designer, you don't call a t-shirt manufacturer to ask them to allow you to print shirts for free so you can tell whoever asks that you got it from example.com. Why should we? You can pull that schtick on every other part that's required to become an artist (engineering, recording, etc) and the answer's always the same.

Not to mention, asking us to give free work is like asking for an investment in you. We, as producers, would essentially be banking on the chance that you may or may not get enough views/listens to bring in successful business, but honestly, what are the chances? Since, we're talking about investments, how many people would invest into unestablished artists? Would anyone invest money into you? What do you think would happen if 99% of people walked to the nearest bank and asked for a loan? If they die of laughter and took you seriously, at the very least, they'd ask for collateral and a personal guarantee, and probably someone else. Where's our personal guarantee? We give away a beat, and artist only gets 20 views on soundcloud, we get nothing. We gave away money. We give a beat away and say the song becomes a one hit wonder and goes triple platinum... there's nothing we can get legally. Artist basically uses us as a stepping stone and we have to ride in the artist's shadow hoping someone recognizes your merits..  It's a lose lose situation.

We can't even guarantee we'd even get significant exposure from another's work. How many common people can even list 10 producers? How many people list producers in the song title? When they don't, how many people are going to look in the tag data that may or may not include your name as the producer? Too many variables, and all of this considered, it's still a minority... a thin part of a whole that really isn't large from that start that may adequately receive that information. Seems really valid to give out beats to people.

My advice... it's a free market. You can cut out the middle man and produce yourself or scour the web for free beats and hope you come across the gem. But as I've come to find out in life, you usually get what you pay for. If you're risk adverse in terms of trying to make it in the game, you're going to fail. You don't get anywhere by taking risks and you sure as hell don't make money without spending it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
55,302 Posts
Prince Al said:
The notion that producers shouldn't charge unless they are famous isn't valid, because everyone else who does work gets paid. People who own small businesses, graphic designers, etc... all those people get exposure by having someone else work for them, but guess what, you don't see them giving their work for free? Why, because they provide a product and or service, and like any other red-blooded American who values free enterprise, want compensation for their services.

We could debate all day about whether producers or artist should pay, but the fact of the matter is, a producer has no need to pay for verses because a rapper's verse has no utility for us. We aren't releasing albums & mix tapes with verses and we don't tour, sell, and release our music.  More importably, we sure as hell wouldn't need a rapper if we did want to do sell and promote instrumental music, whereas rappers and singers would be relegated to poetry night at jazz clubs. Any producer can pull together a band or DJ set and throw a middle finger to a rapper, so that's not a good leverage point.  Rappers and vocalists get to sell the song to however many people you want, you can perform it, you can remix it, you can distribute it across the nation. It's not like we're making money from you but you don't have a way to make money.

Fact is, you need us, the same way you need engineers, distributors, advertisers, managers, and agents. You guys are the end of the rung... you distribute the final product. You don't get to ask for people to support you for hypothetical exposure. You own a restaurant, you don't tell the beef supplier that they get exposure from your serving their food in the rare circumstance that another restaurant owner orders and requests to know where the stake came from. As a graphic designer, you don't call a t-shirt manufacturer to ask them to allow you to print shirts for free so you can tell whoever asks that you got it from example.com. Why should we? You can pull that schtick on every other part that's required to become an artist (engineering, recording, etc) and the answer's always the same.

Not to mention, asking us to give free work is like asking for an investment in you. We, as producers, would essentially be banking on the chance that you may or may not get enough views/listens to bring in successful business, but honestly, what are the chances? Since, we're talking about investments, how many people would invest into unestablished artists? Would anyone invest money into you? What do you think would happen if 99% of people walked to the nearest bank and asked for a loan? If they die of laughter and took you seriously, at the very least, they'd ask for collateral and a personal guarantee, and probably someone else. Where's our personal guarantee? We give away a beat, and artist only gets 20 views on soundcloud, we get nothing. We gave away money. We give a beat away and say the song becomes a one hit wonder and goes triple platinum... there's nothing we can get legally. Artist basically uses us as a stepping stone and we have to ride in the artist's shadow hoping someone recognizes your merits..  It's a lose lose situation.

We can't even guarantee we'd even get significant exposure from another's work. How many common people can even list 10 producers? How many people list producers in the song title? When they don't, how many people are going to look in the tag data that may or may not include your name as the producer? Too many variables, and all of this considered, it's still a minority... a thin part of a whole that really isn't large from that start that may adequately receive that information. Seems really valid to give out beats to people.

My advice... it's a free market. You can cut out the middle man and produce yourself or scour the web for free beats and hope you come across the gem. But as I've come to find out in life, you usually get what you pay for. If you're risk adverse in terms of trying to make it in the game, you're going to fail. You don't get anywhere by taking risks and you sure as hell don't make money without spending it.
was gonna say this
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,561 Posts
Prince Al said:
The notion that producers shouldn't charge unless they are famous isn't valid, because everyone else who does work gets paid. People who own small businesses, graphic designers, etc... all those people get exposure by having someone else work for them, but guess what, you don't see them giving their work for free? Why, because they provide a product and or service, and like any other red-blooded American who values free enterprise, want compensation for their services.

We could debate all day about whether producers or artist should pay, but the fact of the matter is, a producer has no need to pay for verses because a rapper's verse has no utility for us. We aren't releasing albums & mix tapes with verses and we don't tour, sell, and release our music.  More importably, we sure as hell wouldn't need a rapper if we did want to do sell and promote instrumental music, whereas rappers and singers would be relegated to poetry night at jazz clubs. Any producer can pull together a band or DJ set and throw a middle finger to a rapper, so that's not a good leverage point.  Rappers and vocalists get to sell the song to however many people you want, you can perform it, you can remix it, you can distribute it across the nation. It's not like we're making money from you but you don't have a way to make money.

Fact is, you need us, the same way you need engineers, distributors, advertisers, managers, and agents. You guys are the end of the rung... you distribute the final product. You don't get to ask for people to support you for hypothetical exposure. You own a restaurant, you don't tell the beef supplier that they get exposure from your serving their food in the rare circumstance that another restaurant owner orders and requests to know where the stake came from. As a graphic designer, you don't call a t-shirt manufacturer to ask them to allow you to print shirts for free so you can tell whoever asks that you got it from example.com. Why should we? You can pull that schtick on every other part that's required to become an artist (engineering, recording, etc) and the answer's always the same.

Not to mention, asking us to give free work is like asking for an investment in you. We, as producers, would essentially be banking on the chance that you may or may not get enough views/listens to bring in successful business, but honestly, what are the chances? Since, we're talking about investments, how many people would invest into unestablished artists? Would anyone invest money into you? What do you think would happen if 99% of people walked to the nearest bank and asked for a loan? If they die of laughter and took you seriously, at the very least, they'd ask for collateral and a personal guarantee, and probably someone else. Where's our personal guarantee? We give away a beat, and artist only gets 20 views on soundcloud, we get nothing. We gave away money. We give a beat away and say the song becomes a one hit wonder and goes triple platinum... there's nothing we can get legally. Artist basically uses us as a stepping stone and we have to ride in the artist's shadow hoping someone recognizes your merits..  It's a lose lose situation.

We can't even guarantee we'd even get significant exposure from another's work. How many common people can even list 10 producers? How many people list producers in the song title? When they don't, how many people are going to look in the tag data that may or may not include your name as the producer? Too many variables, and all of this considered, it's still a minority... a thin part of a whole that really isn't large from that start that may adequately receive that information. Seems really valid to give out beats to people.

My advice... it's a free market. You can cut out the middle man and produce yourself or scour the web for free beats and hope you come across the gem. But as I've come to find out in life, you usually get what you pay for. If you're risk adverse in terms of trying to make it in the game, you're going to fail. You don't get anywhere by taking risks and you sure as hell don't make money without spending it.
will be my future copypasta if this issue comes up again
 
1 - 20 of 102 Posts
Top