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Official Dallas Mavericks Thread - 41.21.1! The GOAT retires!

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maybe they would have. pg wasnt the guy until granger got hurt a few years into his development.. carlisle did a good job deveoping tayshaun prince when he was in detroit, and got through to jermaine o'neal and young ron artest.. i think we wouldve been fine.


a repeat championship team with chandler, paul george, dirk.. would've been goat
Lol Rick hasn't "developed" a player in ages. Not to mention Tayshaun was a product of that system/team. Of the 5 starters on that team he was the least likely to continue what they did in detroit. In fact he leans more on veterans so...Furthermore, Jermaine O'neal did not come into his own under Rick. It was like 2-3 seasons before Rick got there that J.O. became a 20 & 10 guy. That was Isaiah. Same with Artest, he was good and a 16ppg player before Rick showed up, got suspended and continued that and got even better in sacramento. However, you just made my case. PG didn't come into his own until he had to. He would not have found the PT in Dallas at that time. Great coach and I give a lot of those two teams success to RIck but not to their player development.

Especially considering when PG came in....Rick wasnt ****ed up about developing a young player. He's just now acting like he might want to.

You almost always have to take into account the environment, circumstances, etc....in a players development unless you're dealing with like a Kobe, T-Mac, Lebron, etc....guys that you could tell right off the bat would be the real deal. K. Leonard has developed well in San Antonio but would it have turned out this way elsewhere? What about Jimmy Butler? If that team doesn't need him does he get this good? Could he go elsewhere and be as good. Lance looked like a future all-star for Indy and as soon as he was taken out of that environment his development stopped and hes been a train wreck since.

Players roles, teams willingness to develop them, etc...players a factor in their development.





Dirk
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Lol Rick hasn't "developed" a player in ages. Not to mention Tayshaun was a product of that system/team. Of the 5 starters on that team he was the least likely to continue what they did in detroit. In fact he leans more on veterans so...Furthermore, Jermaine O'neal did not come into his own under Rick. It was like 2-3 seasons before Rick got there that J.O. became a 20 & 10 guy. That was Isaiah. Same with Artest, he was good and a 16ppg player before Rick showed up, got suspended and continued that and got even better in sacramento. However, you just made my case. PG didn't come into his own until he had to. He would not have found the PT in Dallas at that time. Great coach and I give a lot of those two teams success to RIck but not to their player development.

Especially considering when PG came in....Rick wasnt ****ed up about developing a young player. He's just now acting like he might want to.

You almost always have to take into account the environment, circumstances, etc....in a players development unless you're dealing with like a Kobe, T-Mac, Lebron, etc....guys that you could tell right off the bat would be the real deal. K. Leonard has developed well in San Antonio but would it have turned out this way elsewhere? What about Jimmy Butler? If that team doesn't need him does he get this good? Could he go elsewhere and be as good. Lance looked like a future all-star for Indy and as soon as he was taken out of that environment his development stopped and hes been a train wreck since.

Players roles, teams willingness to develop them, etc...players a factor in their development.

we're watching him develop a player before our eyes in dwight powell. he's brought him along nicely. before him, the last player he brought along and developed was jj barea. remember those awful years where jj would run point and our lead built under j.kidd would vanish in record time? back in 09 and 2010? rick brought the best out of him and he ended up being integral not only to the title run, but to our team last year as well. he went from undrafted in 06 to buried on the bench under avery to starting in the nba finals and playing a great game. carlisle developed him. and dwight.

my detroit basketball knowledge isn't what it used to be, but wasn't he the last piston to be traded away? why do you think he was the least likely to continue what they did when he was the last one to leave? and watching him go from underplayed during hte regular season to shuttign down prime t-mac under carlisle was beautiful (and painful as a tmac fan.)

oneil had one 20 10 season before rick, and he and the pacers went from winning games in the 40s to winning games in the 60s. also, artest was good before rick, but he was never an all star until he played for carlisle. under carlisle, he had his only all tar season and his only dpoy season.

rick helped their games a lot. and he helped that team a lot.

when pg came in in 2011, we drafted dominque jones. we were calling him a cross between d. wade and rodney stucky on draft day. we gave him opportunities to succeed at the 2 and the 3 but he sucked. when caron butler went down, he had an opportunity to carve out minutes as the first forward off the bench but got injured.. otherwise, he would have taken brian cardinal's minutes. if we had traded beaubois for pg13, he definitely would have gotten those minutes instead.

i'm with you on  players roles/team willigness to develop players being important.. but i dont think we can just surmise that rick wouldn't have tried to develophim. especially after the patience he showed with jj over the years and how he's handling powell. in any event, my main contention is that cuban sucks at drafting because we chose beaubois and dominque jones over paul george, and chose shane larkin over giannis. even if those two wings never reached their full potential, they'd still be better than jones, beaubois, and larkin.
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we're watching him develop a player before our eyes in dwight powell. he's brought him along nicely. before him, the last player he brought along and developed was jj barea. remember those awful years where jj would run point and our lead built under j.kidd would vanish in record time? back in 09 and 2010? rick brought the best out of him and he ended up being integral not only to the title run, but to our team last year as well. he went from undrafted in 06 to buried on the bench under avery to starting in the nba finals and playing a great game. carlisle developed him. and dwight.

my detroit basketball knowledge isn't what it used to be, but wasn't he the last piston to be traded away? why do you think he was the least likely to continue what they did when he was the last one to leave? and watching him go from underplayed during hte regular season to shuttign down prime t-mac under carlisle was beautiful (and painful as a tmac fan.)

oneil had one 20 10 season before rick, and he and the pacers went from winning games in the 40s to winning games in the 60s. also, artest was good before rick, but he was never an all star until he played for carlisle. under carlisle, he had his only all tar season and his only dpoy season.

rick helped their games a lot. and he helped that team a lot.

when pg came in in 2011, we drafted dominque jones. we were calling him a cross between d. wade and rodney stucky on draft day. we gave him opportunities to succeed at the 2 and the 3 but he sucked. when caron butler went down, he had an opportunity to carve out minutes as the first forward off the bench but got injured.. otherwise, he would have taken brian cardinal's minutes. if we had traded beaubois for pg13, he definitely would have gotten those minutes instead.

i'm with you on  players roles/team willigness to develop players being important.. but i dont think we can just surmise that rick wouldn't have tried to develophim. especially after the patience he showed with jj over the years and how he's handling powell. in any event, my main contention is that cuban sucks at drafting because we chose beaubois and dominque jones over paul george, and chose shane larkin over giannis. even if those two wings never reached their full potential, they'd still be better than jones, beaubois, and larkin.
LMAO Dwight's player development came from the D-League. Stop. However, JJ Barea :what: LOL unless you're talking about a 6th man of the year candidate why are you bringing bench players into a player development conversation when you were initially talking about two(3 with tayshaun) starters. He doesnt develop players into key starters. Period. You can keep reaching but you wont find. Furthermore, you're silly if you think our picks are soley because of Cubes.

And your Detroit knowledge is rubbish. He was the last to go but it wasnt because of how good he was lol are you ed. Of their starting 5 he was obviously a system guy.

I also see you went looked up some stats -- you really calling J.O's 19 not 20 and 10 lol

FACT -- He's none interested in developing players and the only time young players get minutes are on the bench or when someone else gets hurt. Rick is an awesome coach but you're giving him WAY too much credit in that area. He's not Pop when it comes to developing players and anybody could tell you all success he's had in Dallas has 0 to do with development. The title team was literally acquisitions on top of acquisitions.

Back to artest.....LMAO you talking about one all-star appearence.....you dont think he wouldve made it again if he werent suspended? WHat about if he wasnt traded to a loaded west....IN JANUARY WHEN HE WAS TRADED LMAO? That team also immediately played better when he was traded too. Sacramento that is. Year he made the all-star team wasnt like the east was full of talent now was it?

Rick dont develop players. He dont care. Most developing he did was with Wright and Crowder; both who are now gone and you failed to mention them. Why are they gone......oh.....in a trade to get a veteran player :ohmy:
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Better stop using wikipedia and watch some games :jordanlaff:

Talking like he turned J.J. Barea into a perennial All-Star. He's a role player.
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This nigga Deron giving Lillard hell on both ends...:whew:
Luka Kloppo
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:obama:
Dirk
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Better stop using wikipedia and watch some games :jordanlaff:

Talking like he turned J.J. Barea into a perennial All-Star. He's a role player.

1.   Dwight Powell played in the Dleague roughly ten games in the dleague last year, but played far more under Rick in the regular season. Furthermore, his breakout season (this season) has been playing for the Mavericks, not the legends. He was coached by the Mavs staff through most of last year, and all of this year.   He’s currently the first big off the bench, averaging over 20 MPG and has a 20 PER. You can dismiss all those numbers if you want, but I call that development – particularly after playing 8 minutes a game and spending only a fourth of his time in the dleague.
2.   Any actual long-term Maverick fan recognizes both JJ’s contribution to the championship (something you dismiss) and his beautiful development from undrafted rookie benchwarmer to key starter in the 2011 NBA finals. You’re either being disingenuous or deliberately obtuse by dismissing both his development and his contribution to the title run. There is no more ‘key starter’ than being placed in the starting lineup midway through the NBA Finals and altering the course of the title run. Were you watching the team in 08? 09? Do you remember JJ coming in and blowing leads? Going from that guy to starting in the NBA finals is development.
3.   Your argument that the championship was all about acquisition after acquisition exhibits your lack of understanding and appreciation for that 2k11 team. We had one key acquisition during that year – Peja Stojakovic, who couldn’t get on the floor in the third and fourth rounds. Before the year, we acquired Tyson Chandler because he failed a fitness test in OKC and we struck out on all the other big name FA’s when he tried to trade Dampier’s expiring contract.  Aside from those two, who was the acquisition after acquisition that we utilized to get our chip? Everyone else on the squad had been there for years – with the exception of Marion, who was entering his second tour with the Mavs.
4.   Again, you are either being deliberately obtuse or are just sadly uninformed if you believe that the picks don’t ultimately fall on Cuban. Try reading some Dallas-based news sources before you open your mouth. In regards to Giannis : http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dallas-mavericks/headlines/20141202-if-donnie-nelson-had-gotten-his-way-in-2013-this-milwaukee-rising-star-would-have-been-a-mav.ece
““He’s making us look bad for sticking to our plan,” Cuban said Tuesday. “That was Donnie. That (taking Antetokounmpo) is what Donnie wanted to do and I said we should stick to the plan. The whole point was that I wanted to stick to the plan and Donnie was like, this guy’s going to be good. I’ll risk everything that he’s going to be good. I said, I believe you Donnie.”

5.   CUBAN made the call.  Just like he made the call that Beaubois was untradeable – unless it was for someone like Carmelo Anthony. http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mavericks/post/_/id/4674038/roddy-beaubois-is-close-to-untradeable

6.   My Detroit knowledge is limited because I am a Mavericks fan and pay more attention to them than any other team. Just how as Tayshaun ‘obviously’ a system guy? Is he the same kind of system guy that MKG is? Or Bruce Bowen? I believe defensive aces can play in any system – which is why they’re always so sought after. Perhaps the skill that Tayshaun brought to Detroit was deemed more valuable than others. He was by far their best perimeter defender and could guard 1-4. He was able to shut down prime T-mac, a player who posted one of the highest PER’s in NBA history until he was lined up against Tayshaun in the playoffs. You can dismiss that all you want, but the truth is that nobody could stop T-mac. Until Tayshaun did. He followed that up by stopping Kobe in the finals the next year. You may be one of those people who thinks of basketball as only an offensive game and that’s why you see him as a ‘system’ player.’

7.   Also, you can’t call something a fact if it is your subjective opinion.
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I'm not reading that :jordanlaff:
Dirk
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I'm not reading that :jordanlaff:

God bless you and yours.

Also, you're a white person, aren't you?
World1
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God bless you and yours.

Also, you're a white person, aren't you?
:cosby:
Luka Kloppo
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Hardwood classic greens tonight :obamahhh:
Luka Kloppo
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Dirk possibly hurt :floyd:
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Dirk possibly hurt :floyd:
He straight
Luka Kloppo
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He straight
saw he's back on the bench :whew:
Luka Kloppo
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Wesley tonight :whew: wish he got the record though
Luka Kloppo
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He tied it!!!
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Wes put in work. Imma need him to break the record on the 30th though :whew:
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:whew:

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